The reluctant groom and other urban myths

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I've been noticing something recently about stereotypes of women. What I've noticed is that in a sense, men are often projecting their own behaviour onto women.

One example - The myth that women are always pushing for commitment - moving in, marriage, babies etc - while men resist settling down. Neither I nor any of my old schoolfriends, colleagues, other friends have ever had this experience. In fact every single one of us has found the opposite - men hassling to set up home together, to get engaged or and to start a family. The women are usually the ones putting the brakes on.

There are a lot more - shoe-shopping for example. I have spent hours and hours in and out of shoe-shops with DP looking for that one special pair of trainers he wants that apparently is about as common as dandruff on William Hague. If I need shoes I will just spend half an hour scouring the shops til I find something that will do - job done.

Only mean this as a light-hearted thread really, but have you ever experienced this - when you think "and men say women are always doing XYZ?!"

Oh and I know a lot of this down to personal experience, but it is a laugh-cry moment when some man who is always sterotyping female behaviour as "constant gossiping" goes off to spend the night in the pub with his mates (gossiping) for the fourth night in a row.

Oh I know. This is hilarious. The ranking of happiness stakes goes like this
1(most happy): married men

1. Single women
2. Married women
3. Single men

ANd yet they make out as though marriage is good for women,
FFS

DH is a bigger shopper than me too. It's a quick in out for me. I always thought I shopped like a man becasuse I just go in and pounce and get out ASAP. I can'T stand browsing.
BUt maybe I shop like a woman...?

DH always, always takes longer to get ready than I do, and that's after i've gotten DS ready too. Also takes longer to have a pee if we're out somewhere.

One of my favourites is, and always has been, the idea that:

Men are more naturally visual than women, which is why it's inevitable and expected that they'll ogle other women; BUT
Men "literally cannot see dirt" the same way we can and so cannot be expected to help with housework.

Likewise, although a low cut top and short skirt send all sorts of complex messages to a man, including an entire dissertation on the sexual availability and predilections of the wearer, the SAME MAN cannot be expected to answer his wife's query about whether a particular skirt makes her look fat, or what shoes work with an outfit - only women care about clothes, after all.

Those are all brilliant - hilarious about "men are visual, but CANNOT see dirt". I had never put those together before!

Showering - it takes me about 15 mins to have a really good shower, wash & condition hair, shave armpits and legs etc. How is it possible that my brother takes around 30 minutes to just stand under the shower and hopefully emerge not smelling of compost? DP also takes ages in the shower - he does at least use conditioner though

No idea. Maybe because blokes have countless magazines and porn channels and films catering to their desire to ogle - it might make people think that they like doing it more, rather than that women also like to look but have more self-control and don't need it catered to 24/7.

"Why is there still this unusual reluctance to accept this?"

Because men define popular culture i.e they are the ones who control the media, film industry etc. The world is seen through male eyes, and they want lots of young, beautiful women around. They don't want to , or can'T, believe that women are also attracted to sexy, fit young men (women don't have a sexuality of their own, remember) so they've made up a myth that young women want money whereas men want looks.
The fact that most men lose their hair and don't age very well means they've had to pretend to themselves that women don't mind this, and that they're not really oggling the gardeners and the builders. Women are just happy with money . Most women, in reality, would give their left arm for hot steamy sex with a juicy 25 year old.

Or is that just me?

The shriekingHarpy,
I read the "men can't see dirt" one in an "academic" book written by a man! I put it on the crappy science thread.

ShriekingHarpy, of course that's also a stereotype! That's the point of my post; two widely accepted stereotypes about men that completely contradict one another.

And Sakura, it's not just you.

yep, my personal favorite one is about gossiping.

i worked in a male dominated environemtn (im talking 3 women in a company of 80....) and it was unbelievable. the politics and backstabbing and one-upmanship was something to behold i tell ya.

and THEN, when myself and one of the other women went for lunch, the men would all crow, 'ooohhh, out for a nice gossip then ladies'

the irony, oh the irony

Great thread!

My sister just split up with her boyfriend as he wanted to move in together and she wanted to keep partying and having fun. The reluctant groom, like so much of patriarchy, is a fat lie!

What about cuddling / being tactile and affectionate? That's meant to be a girly thing. My DH is really demonstrative, loves falling asleep curled up together and holding my hand and I am constantly being covered in kisses and having my hair stroked.

Other myths:

That men fancy very skinny women with no curves

That men hate cooking

That men can navigate seamlessly

I don't have other myths to add, but I have anecdata to support the fact that the reluctant groom thing is a myth. Of all the married couples that I know well in my generation, so late 20s/early 30s, the man was keen to commit long before the woman was ready. Same with my sister, same with my sister-in-law - and ALL my married friends. Not real data, but fairly convincing anecdata. And a real contrast to my mum's generation, when (as far as she tells it) they were all gagging to get married and trying to hide the fact.

Heh, what's different between our two generations is that all my female married friends have careers they're invested in, and lives they enjoy. My mum and her mates basically left school and then spent the next 5-10 years doing random jobs while trying to get married, because that was what they thought they were supposed to do with their lives. And their deep keenness to get married meant that none of them even thought of keeping their own name, or their jobs, or other things that (they reflect, later) they might have quite wanted to keep for themselves.

Ahh, the advances of feminism! I feel like we have a lot to be grateful for.

The bridezilla. Well, dunno, it prob is more common that way round, but when we were planning our wedding it was him who wanted all the fuss and trimmings. I wanted almost the bare minimum. I'm sure we can't be the only couple.

Haha not just you Sakura! What is this crap about 'men get more distinguished as they age, unlike women' - definitely a myth put out by men! Look at all the older woman - younger man couples.

yes yes yes about the reluctant groom - I agree with that one and have often noted that the opposite is true.
In a break up, the woman is devastated and the man moves on quickly - when the opposite is true.
Men play away from home, women are more faithful - hahahahaha yeah RIGHT.

Men "can't help themselves".
Oh they "help themselves" alright.

The thing about visual men is just so much bollocks - some men are more visual (my Dad) and some couldn't be less visual (my DH). It's all to do with how you process info in the brain. I am much better at reading maps and roadsigns than DH; he is better at remembering places and where we've been.

Gossip - my DH does this far more than me (usually he and his mum), and he is more into the whole "sleb" crap than I am.

Men hate shopping - no, men hate shopping that isn't for them - DH always comes out with this crap when I want to do some shopping but is more than happy to go when he wants something. (I don't generally like shopping tbh, it's not something that floats my boat)

But the one that gets me the most is
"women take so long to get ready, we're always late because of it"
Er, no. DH takes longer than I do and always starts late - it's always me waiting for him, not the other way round.

The one thing I do think is more stereotypically accurate, if you can have such a thing, is that most men can 'compartmentalise' more/better than most women. And they are more prone to re-writing history to allay personal guilt (but that doesn't mean women don't do it, my Mum was verrry good at it)

And - falling into the trap myself here - IME, men who fancy skinny women with no curves might just be gay. (one of my ex-bfs turned out to be - I was going out with him when I was at my skinniest and curvelessest)

Men can't multitask - this is just an evil rumour put around to justify the fact it is women running around first thing in the morning making breakfast, making lunches, packing school bags, finding shoes, switching off lights etc whilst he stands at the front door looking at his watch.....

The men can't see dirt thing - they have no difficulty seeing dirt on something they care about that they feel responsibility for. Like their cars.

The myth of the "evil stalker Woman" a la fatal attraction.

I sincerely know no Woman who has done this to a man but funnily enough a countless number of my girlfriends have been hounded and harrased by really dodgy stalkerish men after one date.

Very good point HerBeatitude.
They (general they) still feel that keeping house is the woman's responsibility, and they are so good to "help out".