Sexism in YOUR life?

[AmberTheHappyLuddite]

Just an idea.

I was asked this week at work, why I didn't have "an easier job for a lass - like in a hairdressers?"

I work in the construction industry and come across this kind of gibberish regularly. How many of you have experienced sexism in your real life? I'm not talking about stuff you've seen in the media, but instances in your real life. I'm wondering how prelevent this sort of thing still is.

Oh dear Lutyens. I know you're right about sexism in general in India... had hoped though that that particular sort of grim behaviour was not directed at indian women.

One that particularly used to piss me off:

In management consulting business, surrounded by highly educated business professionals with senior & board level management experience.

Phrase used to ask you to explain something clearly / from the basics would be "say it in words your mother/grandmother would understand".

I did once tell firm partner that my mother was a CEO, and grandmothers were a head teacher and matron of large london hospital, so they'd probably be ok with complexity, thanks.

I chickened out of saying this to a senior client though. Wish wish wish I had done.

Jesus, absolutely and at the comments on here.

My work is generally very good - I work in IT and in my department we have a lot of women doing technical jobs, so there is no question about whether men are better at that sort of thing. Sexism at work is also minimal or laughed at when it happens (ie it's not just me who takes it up if it does happen). It is not unexpected for men to do childcare duties, come in late because it's their day for taking the kids to school and so forth, though numerically it's still more often women who are doing that.

Two particularly outrageous examples even in this otherwise paradisical scenario: I did have one male colleague who seriously said that he thought the mothers in our department were less good at their jobs than the non mothers (he was including both men who are fathers and women who are not mothers) because they were less committed to their work. I would have exploded at him properly except it took some time to sink in as to what exactly he was saying - I was stuck in "surely he can't mean that!" land until after he'd gone.

Another one - a female manager A who didn't offer a specific change in job role to female team member B, because "she has children and wouldn't be able to do it". Team member B hadn't even been asked whether she would be able to do it!! Female manager A is also someone who, on preparing for an overseas trip, said she had to go home to do the shopping for her husband so that he had food for while she was away - because she'd "had him straight from his mum" her husband was utterly incapable of shopping or of cooking or, seemingly, even of getting a takeaway. The length of the trip? Less than a week.

Lio

Isn't it awful? I've had comments like this for running on 20 years now, plus the groping which you describe.

It's demeaning and offensive.

I also remember reading a comment from a man on I think a discussion board - can't remember what context, saying 'Come on, the larger the chest size the smaller the IQ, we all know that'.

I was sitting in a classroom with a male and a female teacher today, when the caretaker walked in to talk about a problem in the room next door where we keep our editing equipment. Of the three of us, I have much more experience in that area and have taught down there for years longer than the others, yet the caretaker didn't even acknowledge me or the other woman but went straight to talk to the man. I was

I've only got to page 2 of this thread but truly can't read anymore as my blood pressure is probably through the roof!!!!!!

Re the stories about having ones breasts commented on in the street - there is a good discussion on this here on The F Word.

This behaviour is important because it's a way of keeping women fearful and reminding them that they can only feel comfortable out and about until a man decides to make us uncomfortable.

If I am constantly judged on my appearance while going about my business and my sexual characteristics are treated as fair game, I dont feel safe in the street. I am not a person taking part on society but an object for men to look at and rate.

Thanks for the link, SkaterGrrrl, and a good link from the F word to a Guardian article. Yes, Janos, it's depressingly common and sickening.

you got there before me, lutyens, but was going to say it's definitely a sexist as well as racist problem. I didn't see any of my male friends getting sexually assualted. Plus if things are bad for us, women who are just visiting and have no "investment" , imagine how much worse it is for the women who have to live with blokes with such a sense of entitlement.

Isn't it just Lio.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been told by men that it's just a bit of fun, doesn't mean anything, I should take it as a compliment etc. And I'm not just talking about your stereotypical 'macho man' types either, the kind you might expect to have that attitude (I do realise this is a generalisation).

More often than not it comes from educated, middle class men too. Except they often dress it up with pseudo-scientific survival of the species bullshit.

One answer is to out earn them and be better than they are which is happening all over the place. Women are diong pretty well and need to continue. We also have more female millionaires than men under 40 now as plenty leave and work for themselves. I work for myself. I eat what I kill. I kill well.

I also see sexism the other way about us too against men including all over mumsnet - every time someone says my husband can't change a nappy as well I can or I could never let him cook as he's no good or mothers who deny fathers contact after divorce. We certainly need to work towards less sexism. Women should point it out when they see it.

I don't think I really encounter most. The start of this thread had a lot of construction industry comments and I do come across some industries where just about everyone is male. As I am often the highest paid one amongst them despite my sex and they want and need what I have to offer I never find them particularly sexist and I'm not very PC myself.

If people make sexist remarks try reversing them back to them with male and female replaced or make it racist instead or even as I say to taxi drivers who are racist something like - well not everyone agrees with that or whatever. Just keep making the point so they realise there's a female view.

This book is worth reading - about the woman who dressed as a man in various roles www.wanderings.net/notebook/Main/Self-MadeManNorahVincentJourneyIntoManhood

In my important Sexism is an important part of Society. I wouldn't protect my Girls from sexism because they need to be ready for the real world. Also if they are a wise as me they can bend the objectification of women in their favour to earn themselves some money and get in some magazines or on the 3rd page of a newspaper.

ZOMBIE

I came up with the idea for a program at work and it was given the go-ahead for development. A male colleague and I worked on it - I wrote most of it and designed the program.

We ran it together and it was hugely successful. Because it was in very male-dominated field and topic area, participants treated me as an assistant to my colleague. Eventually so did my organisation; it became colleague’s program and I was allowed to “help” him on it. He got a promotion out of it, I didn’t.

I took on another subject which no-one wanted and made it innovation be and engaging. Once it was working well they got a bloke to deliver it.

And the never to-be-forgotten day when I called the IT bloke to fix the email file system, and he asked me if I knew how to double-click an email to open it. When I pointed out how patronising he was being, he asked me why I was being so aggressive.

DebraB467 interesting first post and well done bumping a

    <strong>9 YEAR OLD THREAD!</strong>

MargueritaBlue I like your zombie 🧟‍♀️

Dance your colleagues sound like arses!

Being told by my teacher, in front of the class, that with my tits I could be a porn actress? I was 17. But if I quoted them all, it would be a book, not a post. Also, honourable mention, being told by librarian that if I had a child, why was I not home taking care of him instead of wanting to study at the library?

Dance your colleagues sound like arses!

You know GirlDownUnder, some of them certainly were. Others were actually good people, but it was such a male-dominated field they were blinded by their own expectations.

It was as if uncertainty and innovation were coded female, because ambiguity is not seen as powerful. But once something was successful it was coded male. So clearly they had to be led by men because high profile, successful programs were in the male sphere. 🙄

There was one area which was seen as naturally female, although it was actually complex and very political. I had extremely expert female colleagues who worked in the area. But when an invitation to a major conference in an exotic location arrived, a male colleague with no expertise in the field went. High profile representation was considered male, although the work itself was seen as belonging to women.

It’s not just about the gender pay gap; it’s about who gets opportunities to be seen and listened to. And those opportunities are reflected on CVs.

I've actually found it quite interesting to read the posts from a decade ago and see how little has changed...

My first job - manager explained "I don't understand discrimination against women - they look so pretty around the workplace"

Jaysus!

Team of males and females all agreed to bring food for a working lunch. Men didn't bring any, ate the food, then pissed off as "they had work to do!" this is in one would describe as an "equality driven environment"

Salesman insistent on speaking to both parties (under the premise that the mortgage was in joint names) would not accept that DH was fine with me to make the decision. Not good enough, so told them well it won't work, then so no point you wasting your time, took a number of calls before the penny dropped they weren't going to sell their product!

First job was in a school, after finishing college, told my dad, who said that's great, it'll be a perfect little job, once your married and will mean that you will be home in time to cook your husbands tea! (took the wind out my sails somewhat!)

Husband told by female colleagues can your wife not collect the (ill) child from school? DH response, "don't think she can get a plane to get her their in time!"

and this gets right up my nose a local plastering firm with their logo
"spread it and lay it" with a silhouette of a female above the writing.

need I go on?

It frustrates me that men don't go part-time

I think this is a vicious circle where men are more likely to get promoted so often it makes sense for the man to be the one to stay stay at work. Of course, this feeds the problem but most couples will ultimately choose their own interests over making a 'drop in the ocean' attempt to change society.

And women are statistically more likely to leave a SAHM husband too, so that possibly puts some men off too.