Sandie Peggie has lost her case against the nursing union.

[RhannionKPSS]

Terrible news

It's funny that you got the wrong end of the stick there.

The point wasn't about how society arranges who should have the opportunity to bring up children, which is ultimately as you point out an opinion. It is that regardless of who acts as a child's practical and emotional parents, it is a fact that every human so far has required one parent of each sex to be conceived, and a female human body to gestate.

And that fact has historically and still does have significant social and economic consequences for female people. Even, because of how it has shaped the social expectations of women's abilities, those who choose not to reproduce or parent.

You could very rightly say those expectations are just opinions and didn't have to be that way, and you'd be right, but nevertheless that is the way our society went, so here and now it is a fact that those opinions exist very deeply in our culture and impact female people whether we personally buy into them or not.

Which is also a reply to your point that whether sex matters more than gender, less than gender or not at all is just an opinion. Because painting these opinions as equally practically valid is missing the impact of facts about how sex affects our lives. Whether you think those impacts matter is of course just an opinion, but the existence of them is a fact. And these, I would say, make the opinion of gender overview or vice versa not a simply equal proposition.

Babies are not 'made' by adoption.

It requires a sperm and an ovum to conceive a baby.

Women do not and will not ever produce sperm. Men do not and will not ever produce ova.

It's 2026 and we are compelled to explain how babies are made to grown adults.

What a farce.

Is being a biological parent a nebulous dog whistle?

This.

Well no, because you're correctly stating one fact (you need sperm and eggs to make a baby) and then assuming this fact overrides everything else. You're extrapolating it the wider issue to then mean that sex is always more important than gender because "baby making".

For one, not everyone wants a baby, so the fact that you need a male and a female to create one isn't of any importance to some people. The importance of that depends on the value one puts on having biological children.

Two, again, this comes back to values. For some people, parenthood is intrinsically linked to the biological conception of a baby with their gamete. For others, not so much or at all. So again, their sex, their partners sex, and their ability to conceive together aren't viewed with importance.

So whether sex is more important than gender still comes down to individual opinion and personal values. Whatever your opinion, it isn't a fact.

It isnt the only way to become a parent.

No they're not. But people can adopt babies other people made.

Oh do be sensible. Trans is a word that means fake.

Back in the 70s transvestite or transsexual were how we referred to people not a diluted term like trans.

This thread is about a woman who has had to tolerate a doctor pretending to be a woman invading her space.

That’s not actually the point, it’s a deflection, as you well know.

Yeah and everything is just like… an opinion, man. You all might be in my mind… I might be the only sentient being and you’re all just figments of my imagination… people can call themselves parents and carry out a parenting role so it’s actually a totally valid opinion that gametes don’t matter, just as valid as your opinion that human reproduction depends on anisogamy and every human who has ever lived had a biological mother and a biological father… it’s all just opinions! Top stuff. Confidently delivered, I’d award maybe 5/10 for effort.

Nope, still got the wrong end of the stick there.

I'm pointing out the facts are (1) it takes of human of each sex to create another human, (2) the gestation requires a specifically female human, and (3) that second fact has had significant social consequences for women that still reverberate today.

That you assume I'm making some moral point about who gets to be parents is, I'm afraid, a you thing. You see what you want to see I guess.

I don't really care who gets to be parents or how, as long as the women who carries the child and the children themselves are safe, loved and cared for. My point is wider, and different.

I do think that the facts above, particularly the long history of social marginalisation, exploitation and abuse of the female half of humanity, means placing gender over sex is unfair because it is socially, politically and economically damaging to female people.

Now I fully acknowledge that whether social, political and ecomonic freedom of women matters in the first place is still just an opinion, but if one accepts the opinion that as far as possible we should aim to give people equal safety and equal chances to make what they can of their life, I would say it is an opinion for which a stronger practical case can be made than the alternative.

Adoption has precisely fuck all at all to do with how babies are conceived.

Oh we are no pro surrogacy as well….that will be interesting @Lexibletheflexible

No, it was exactly the point I was making in response to the quoted comment. Partners do not have to be able to conceive with each other to continue the species

I'm not against surrogacy, no. I'd be one myself for a close family member. But surrogacy is just one approach to becoming a parent. Adoption and the use of donation are far more common.

But one woman and one man does. Someone has to make the baby right? Or are you still believing babies are found in cabbage patches ?

It has to do with how people become parents and how they ensure the people they want as co-parents have that legal status.

Yes. But those people don't have to be partners as you should well know. People will always have babies they can't raise. Donation will always be a thing most likely. So you dont need to be able to conceive with your partner for you to become parents. This isn't new stuff.

And what you're saying about it being "stronger" is an opinion, too. It doesnt matter who agrees with it. It isn't a fact.

Are you saying it’s not a fact you need a woman and a man to make a baby? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I’m not going to indulge the silly deflection any longer. It’s a fundamentally fatuous argument.

Did you read the 3 line post you quoted? Read it out loud to yourself.

Oh I did. And laughed. Why are people having to explain to a grown adult how babies are made? I blame the parents myself 🤣🤣🤣

Quite. Pure time wasting.