Kellie-Jay Keen (AKA Posie Parker) has been charged by the police under the Communications Act

[TERFandSWERF]

https://x.com/wasacop/status/2116241544084619461?s=46&t=p6GESSn09HWHVXYgTLIbJg

“Kellie-Jay Keen has been charged under s.127 of the Communications Act 2003 over posts made between 23 and 25 June.

As ex-police, here's how it works:
• No victim needed
• No intent needed
• The offence is complete once the message is sent if a court finds it 'grossly offensive' (DPP v Collins [2006] UKHL 40)

That's a very low bar for a criminal charge over words.

But Chambers v DPP [2012] EWHC 2157 set a high bar for these cases, and Article 10 protects speech that offends, shocks or disturbs. A district judge decides on 4th December.

One to watch.”

In a court of law, the onus is on the prosecution to prove the charges, not vice versa.

What about when they say that we're responsible for genocide?

Nobody takes a bit of notice because they know it's absolute crap. But what if she said it about Islam?

It really is only sauce for the gander.

I used to find myself broadly in agreement with her sex/gender campaigning, though we were coming from different places. She has drifted towards more 'far right' positions in current terminology and I agree with her less than I did.

It seems that her charges are regarding what she says/writes with regard to a religion. Not one I have any love for. I think it is fine to be critical of any religion, including mine. However whether what she says is helpful or legal is another matter. She seems to be goading a response where she is not going to draw the support that she otherwise might if she wasn't so vain and incendiary.

Some Girls who were victims of the grooming gangs WERE told they would be murdered and chopped up into kebabs, many went ‘missing’ so it’s not a stretch to think that it may have happened.

It shouldn’t be a crime to criticise ANY religion and we should all be against any blasphemy laws, especially when only one religion is being protected.

What’s said and written about ‘The Jews’ by lots of high profile people is FAR worse than questioning illegal migration/ child marriage/ the islamification of Europe. Funny how those people aren’t being charged with offences.

Well said.

Her husband supports her financially and she supports him and her four children in every other way. Are you saying that a stay at home parent is somehow lesser?

There is no evidence that there aren't a family of elves living in the cupboard under my stairs, but based on what's likely in the world I would say that there is not.

Yes I agree, but KJK did not invent this rumour herself, it is very well established and at one point ISTR the police thought it was potentially plausible.

There is much more likelihood that girls were murdered by criminal gangs of rapists than that there are elves under your stairs, though.

I don't like or agree with some of the stuff she says and posts either. But is it really a police matter?

Who Decides what's grossly offensive?

Calling for TERFs to be punched in the face, grossly offensive, he's not been arrested though.
All the vile, nasty, sick insults directed at JKR and many other women, grossly offensive, none of the people responsible for those have been arrested.
This is just all about protecting one religion, for a secular society that likes to boast about human rights, this is intolerable.

I'd like to see all of those Muslims who have posted grossly offensive Jew hating tweets rounded up and arrested too, they can start with the Deputy Leader of the Green Party.

Who Decides

The first school my DD taught in was one of the targets of the Stoke grooming/drugs network - in 2013 there was an onsite police officer and the Teachers would go and stand outside at home-time to ‘dissuade’ the Pakistani ‘boyfriends’ who turned up in flash cars to pick up white ( and only white) Girls of 12-16. They would probably be arrested now, the Teachers I mean.
DD taught some of the younger brothers of the Men and they ALL had the same ‘white Girls are slags’ attitude.

If you aren’t angry, like KJK is, like I am, then What the hell is wrong with you?

I don't follow KJK on any social media and I've never been to a Let Women Speak event. I don't expect I would agree with everything she says but there's an important point of principle here about how far the state can interfere with free speech. It's a tricky point but I come at from this point of view. The established religion in this country for 1500 years or so has been Christianity and in the last 1-200 years at least people have been free to criticise Christianity with impunity, and many have, with justification, given the appalling record of various churches and denominations on child sexual abuse, misogyny, refusing to let women have any position of power, complicity in the slave trade, etc etc.

Now that a majority of the UK population has no religion at all, it seems perverse that any religion can be protected. I don't know enough about Islam to know how much of what goes on its name is actually in the Koran and how much is cultural, but I do have the sense that Islam has not moved with the times in the way that much of Christianity and Judaism has. The position of same-sex attracted people and women and girls seems particularly problematic.

I would be very concerned indeed if we ended up with a system where anything goes when it comes to criticising most religions but Islam somehow has protected status.

I look forward with interest to hearing more about this case if it actually makes it to court.

There are a lot of posters on MN who really don’t have a clue about it, tbh.

Not when they veer into racism they're not.

Racism is a police matter, yes.

Oh are you Who Decides then.

What has the charging of a nasty racist woman for her nasty racist tweets got to do with feminism? Or are you posting in this topic just because MN doesn't have a dedicated topic for discussing nasty racists?

God, that's horrifying.

I don't think I ever saw any of KJK's posts before she was banned from MN, a long, long time ago, but I have seen it stated that she was already criticising Islam for requiring little girls to wear a headscarf. I expect there was more. She doesn't mince words. For what it's worth, I also hate seeing women expected to cover their heads and especially faces when men aren't. It's indefensible. That goes for any religious or other group that requires this, btw.

No, not the tiniest clue.

No experience of growing up on dog-rough council estates and the things that went on, like pregnant 13 year olds being prostituted out by Pakistani shop owners, which was going on way back in the 70’s/80’s when I was a teen.

Oh are you the one Who Decides then.

Most of what KJK says in relation to Islam is to do with the rights of women and children. Also, KJK is known for her campaigning on women’s rights. Therefore, I’d say this discussion does belong here. If you disagree then report the thread to Mumsnet?

There's no evidence that men don't routinely make women into kebabs? Where are these kebabs then? Do the food standards agency not have anything to say about it?

Like when people claim that JK Rowling supports trans genocide. Should all those who say that be charged, too?

Islam is not a race. It is a belief. It is a religion that can be very threatening to those who want to leave it. There are many issues that are problematic and are harmful to women and girls.
If you cannot criticise a belief in a democratic society, you are on very shaky ground.

Have a read of the Qur'an. I did and it changed my view point massively.