Ageism often lurks within the ideas and rhetoric of trans activists - Victoria Smith

[IwantToRetire]

... In a recent interview to celebrate 80 years of Woman’s Hour, programme editor Karen Dalziel was quizzed on its handling of the “what is a woman?” question. When asked why the programme didn’t simply reflect the law as clarified by the Supreme Court, she offered a rather convoluted response:

One thing we have to remember here is that you’re on Radio 4. Many of our audience are over sixty. They don’t understand the terminology and part of our role in the preceding years has been to help people understand the terms and what all the different terms mean.

A generous interpretation of this could be that this is about complex legal terminology (who wasn’t an expert in case law when they were in their teens and early twenties? Funny how you forget!). Except Dalziel goes on to say that the Supreme Court judgment has “helped listeners have some clarity about what is meant, but this is moving”. For many people, she argues, it’s “a beginning”:

People said that women couldn’t vote. Other people have different ideas and continue to campaign. We follow the story. ...

Full article https://thecritic.co.uk/you-dont-have-to-be-young-to-understand-gender-identity/

Also at https://archive.is/Ye7A0

On the contrary, I think the only two things we can say for sure about TPA (and indeed every other human on the planet) are that TPA's biological mother absolutely does or did exist, and that that person was a woman¹

¹ in the original non-sexist sense of the word, obviously

It can't be overstated how much these groups weren't linked in the public mind in the 70s and 80s. People were aware of Jan Morris and there were a few documentaries about transexuals, but they were not presented as being linked to drag (panto or otherwise) or gay culture.

Equally, the suggestion that people in same sex relationships might not be fully men or women was considered antithetical to Gay rights. Obviously 'camp' is not new, but it would have been offensive to suggest that an effeminate man was not male.

In the 1970s Feminists like Jill Tweedie did not have difficulty observing that Jan Morris's memoir was rather sexist, and the passage of time has not proved them wrong. x.com/treesey/status/1999603905332723871

Maybe the problem with older women is their memories?

Absolutely. The problem is we actually remember the past rather than relying on it described for us by people with an agenda, and we can point straight at their bullshit.

Maybe the problem with older women is their memories?

I was 18 in 1972 and I don't recall anything about trans at all. I'm sure there were men wearing women's clothes on the QT and passing, largely because they didn't draw attention to themselves by doing things like barging into the Ladies. Any public awareness would be of drag - men like Danny La Rue.

Perhaps I should have said, 'this version of TPA's mother' who I suspect exists in the same realm as TPA's trans child who was originally a niece/nephew, and all of the other relations and friends that are all fully supportive of TPA's views. Not forgetting the 'lots' of people that TPA knows who are aggrieved at being compelled to stop calling black men 'boys' and keep quiet about their racist and homophobic opinions.

As you say, whoever TPA is, their real mother is or was a woman.

We all know how Stonewall likes to make things up - including supposed laws of the land 🤣

TPA lives in a strange universe where young people are simultaneously very progressive and accepting of transpeople and also responsible for horrific transphobic bullying of her child.

I remember a guy who lived near me in the late 70s or early 80s. He had long hair and wore women's clothes, but was obviously a man - quite tall, male gait. He certainly didn't pass as a woman as he strode round the local shopping centre! I never spoke to him and I have no idea how he would have described himself.

It’s interesting how this link talks about LGBTQ+ - Pride was all about rights for LGB people. The ‘TQ+’ didn’t exist. Trans meant transvestite, Q meant queer and was used as a slur against LGB people and +, what does that mean even now? It also mentions ‘trans women of colour’ being some of the key people. We know that wasn’t true. Even the so called ‘transwomen of colour’ agree that it wasn’t true.

It’s interesting how this link talks about LGBTQ+ - Pride was all about rights for LGB people.

Perhaps someone should point that out to the Museum of London

Yep, they were called ‘female impersonators’.

I describe myself as "aging" as I creep closer to 80. But actually everyone is aging every minute of their life, aren't they? That's not "ageist" to acknowledge. It's only "ageist" if it results in some sort of discrimination. Pointing out a fact isn't that. Same thing as pointing out TWAM is a fact, not necessarily discrimination (unless the TW is being denied something that a man is normally allowed to do).

Yep, they do tha a lot, in an attempt to prove that 'there have always been transgender people'.

There have always been gender diverse people, but now they are swept up under the 'trans+' label. To make up numbers, probably...

And they were indeed held regularly every year. Or else I hallucinated for a long weekend every summer from 1985 onwards, and the collection of dated Pride badges I've still got somewhere covering from then until about the turn of the millenium (I got too old, and it got too obsessed with the boys and bloody drag queens) are just a figment of my 64 year old addled brain.

I'm glad you said that, I was worried I'd hallucinated the ones I went on too!

At that time, they were lovely. And a lot of the clubs were very quiet and discreet but were lovely too. And were LGB. There were a couple of gay men who were also transsexuals and were just part of the group, there because they were gay. No men at that point demanding to be called lesbian and insisting that you'd love the 'mouthfeel' of their anatomy if you'd try it.

That was about the point I and a lot of others stopped going to clubs and meets.

That was the point.

that's the point!

She has to not identify as a man.

And the rest is the point.

Anyone can present however on the gender spectrum they choose.

Sorry, I still don't understand.

A woman who identifies as non-binary is identifying as neither cis nor a man, but believes that other people can helpfully be categorised by gender.

What is the difference between this woman, and another woman who neither identifies as cis nor a man, but doesn't believe that people can be helpfully categorised by gender?

Despite its flaws, the most recent census did reveal that a very large proportion of people who do not identify with their birth sex do not identify as either male or female, so 'cis' doesn't seem a very helpful category if it just means 'doesn't identify as the opposite sex'.

One is wrong and the other is right.

What makes me laugh is that even if you did believe in the concept of cis and trans the idea that so called cis women should have anything just for themselves never seems to be a thing.

So one is wrong to not identify as 'cis'?

Thanks for the link, VS is always worth reading.

Cis is a 'trans' status and 'trans' is a load of GI bollocks, so no thanks, I'll stick with woman, It doesn't need an explanation, or a qualifier, everyone knows what it means, even those who lie through they're teeth when claim they don't.

Non-men, is a non-starter, the Green Youth, need to get out into the fresh air more. You can't define people by what they're not because the Gender Idiots have invented 97 different 'genders', so according to their batshittery a woman would have to be non- all of the 97 genders, it would be inclusive otherwise.

Absolutely. It's like how Genderists' take on Intersectional feminism never allows for sex as one of the intersecting axis despite the undeniable degree to which societies and individuals have exploited and marginalised people of female body up to and including making us literally property.

They weasel up and replace the knowledge and impact of sex with "cis" and "trans" that signify sex difference but do not label it and most importantly can apply to male or female people depending on context, allowing them to slide over the power dynamics of men over women and position the male people claiming womanhood as marginalised and the natally female people on whom they impose as privileged.