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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tom Daley steps into the world of drag

118 replies

HannahinHampshire · 05/10/2026 20:27

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/962ef028c3a0222b

How depressing. I thought we were done with drag . . .

Tom Daley takes plunge into the world of drag

Olympic diver is unrecognisable after donning dress and blonde wig for YouTube makeover show

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/962ef028c3a0222b

OP posts:
2021x · 06/10/2026 07:06

Cailleach1 · 06/10/2026 06:36

I suppose the black and white minstrel show was very popular on tv, once.

just to add it lasted for around 20 years. I must admit, I don’t watch any of that drag stuff as I find it more than a bit creepy. I wouldn’t watch the black and white minstrel show for the same reason. I think it is only women that are fair game to parody now though.

Edited

Yup, you have all that toxic stuff that has a 10- 20-year lifespan.

Drag Race was popular because it was different, but now it's too big to remain interesting, and men dressing as ridiculous parodies of women doesn't really work well in the mainstream, and Gen A will think it's uncool.

One decent behind-the-scenes scandal about how Ru Paul doesn't live the values that he constantly preaches, i.e. bullying/assaulting the contestants/staff, will kick it into the dust where it belongs.

Cailleach1 · 06/10/2026 07:11

MaIeficent · 05/10/2026 23:43

A kilt isn't a dress. 🤣

Well, the modern, small one is more skirt than dress. However, the fèileadh mòr can be a complete outer wardrobe. Quite sari like, in metres of wool for warmth. Kilt and mantle, blanket all in one.

https://welsh-tartan.com/products/product/great-kilt-feileadh-mor/

Apparently, they were banned after the Jacobite risings, and didn’t really return to use in the same way. So now, the more modern, simple kilt version.

Great Kilt (Feileadh Mor) | Wales Tartan Centres

The Great Kilt (also known as Feileadh Mor), was the original form of the modern-day kilt we know today. Dating back to the 16th century, this full-length garment was worn as clothing and protection against harsh weather conditions.Traditionally, the G...

https://welsh-tartan.com/products/product/great-kilt-feileadh-mor/

wherearemypeople · 06/10/2026 07:14

MaIeficent · 05/10/2026 23:33

I'm GC when it comes to sports, bathrooms, etc, but I also think it's a shame it's overshadowed pretty much everything else. Like, Feminism Chat is a ghost town now.

The trans thing is more a matter of principle to me tbh. I'm not in the least worried about meeting a man in a dress in real life. I think I've only ever once been within 20 feet of a trans woman. Aside from that I've maybe seen five or six while out and about in the last few years. So much noise about it online but it's almost like they don't really exist irl.

Ooh, what part of the country is currently not affected by the trans thing? In my city it's impossible to go anywhere without bumping into men with breasts. I'm thinking, workplace, art gallery staff, pub staff - Wetherspoons as well as the more alternative pubs, Sainsbury's, theatre (actors and audience).

Pabbel · 06/10/2026 07:16

He makes my skin crawl.

2021x · 06/10/2026 07:26

MaIeficent · 05/10/2026 23:33

I'm GC when it comes to sports, bathrooms, etc, but I also think it's a shame it's overshadowed pretty much everything else. Like, Feminism Chat is a ghost town now.

The trans thing is more a matter of principle to me tbh. I'm not in the least worried about meeting a man in a dress in real life. I think I've only ever once been within 20 feet of a trans woman. Aside from that I've maybe seen five or six while out and about in the last few years. So much noise about it online but it's almost like they don't really exist irl.

I am in NZ. I was in a women's changing room when a man walked in with a woman and started changing. I just froze. I asked the gym, and they said that they couldn't discriminate against him, as he was a transwoman. It has stopped me from going to the gym.

I have seen 2 transwomen in the street today- one was dressed to attract attention- ill-fitting clothes, tight in all the areas you don't want them to be tight in; the other was just wearing normal clothes with light makeup.

We have no clear legal clarification on what is male or female in law, and the result is that we cannot prevent males from coming into female spaces because the Human Rights Commission will support the man. Australia have it even worse.

Theresmagicwheretheflowersgrow · 06/10/2026 07:44

alcovecupboards · 05/10/2026 22:17

Quite a good one considering that poster can't and won't answer.

She's not here to respond to your aggressive challenges.

GreyskySexRealistsky · 06/10/2026 08:07

MaIeficent · 05/10/2026 23:48

I just see it as an extension of the camp gay man act. If that's womanface then surely butch lesbians are kinda doing manface or at least culturally appropriating men.

Do you have any idea how offensive this post is? Try to engage your brain before posting.

Butch lesbians are not "doing manface"

How fucking homophobic

Shortshriftandlethal · 06/10/2026 08:12

alcovecupboards · 05/10/2026 20:46

Did you really think drag was 'done'? It's hugely popular and will remain so.

It will amongst gay men because it has become intimately associated with gay liberation and culture....even though it has had its time and no longer serves its purpose. If anything it now draws more negtive attention and the sorts of associations that the gay community had long tried to be rid of.

Hopefully more gay men will start to question why it is they enjoy watching other men dress up as over-blown and often grotesque parodies of women? What is so progressive and liberating, or even funny, about that?

Coatsoff42 · 06/10/2026 09:02

Myalternate · 05/10/2026 22:32

They both looked plastic 😳

he looked like a living filter, it was really odd, really generic.

Imdunfer · 06/10/2026 09:40

MaIeficent · 05/10/2026 23:10

Yeah, I can't see it going anywhere anytime soon. Women are the main audience and many seem to absolutely love it. Nobody really complained about it until the trans thing but now a lot of feminists seem to unconditionally hate any man in a dress.

Edited

It changed with "the trans thing".

It used to be men who were clear that they were men, performing acts that picked up on stereotypical female behaviour to create entertainment through comedy and/or extravagant showmanship. What was seen on TV was typically respectful and even affectionate towards the women they were modelling their performance on.

That changed when it turned into a competition.

I fell about laughing when they started including women and suggesting it was some kind of art form for men to compete about how well they can tuck their dick out of sight.

Imdunfer · 06/10/2026 09:46

MaIeficent · 05/10/2026 23:48

I just see it as an extension of the camp gay man act. If that's womanface then surely butch lesbians are kinda doing manface or at least culturally appropriating men.

I suspect you can't recognise the level of internalised gender stereotyping that results in you being able to write that.

Dandeloosha · 06/10/2026 15:27

MaIeficent · 05/10/2026 23:48

I just see it as an extension of the camp gay man act. If that's womanface then surely butch lesbians are kinda doing manface or at least culturally appropriating men.

No, butch lesbians are just butch lesbians. They’re not pretending to be men. They’re not wearing fake beards or false willies.

alcovecupboards · 06/10/2026 17:42

Dandeloosha · 06/10/2026 15:27

No, butch lesbians are just butch lesbians. They’re not pretending to be men. They’re not wearing fake beards or false willies.

There's a thriving industry in 'false willies' used almost exclusively by lesbians.

alcovecupboards · 06/10/2026 17:44

Shortshriftandlethal · 06/10/2026 08:12

It will amongst gay men because it has become intimately associated with gay liberation and culture....even though it has had its time and no longer serves its purpose. If anything it now draws more negtive attention and the sorts of associations that the gay community had long tried to be rid of.

Hopefully more gay men will start to question why it is they enjoy watching other men dress up as over-blown and often grotesque parodies of women? What is so progressive and liberating, or even funny, about that?

Edited

I don't think you're seeing reality particularly clearly. There are bars and restaurants packed across the country with drag queens hosting events full of mainly women customers. If anything you said was true then that wouldn't be the case.

alcovecupboards · 06/10/2026 17:47

wherearemypeople · 06/10/2026 07:14

Ooh, what part of the country is currently not affected by the trans thing? In my city it's impossible to go anywhere without bumping into men with breasts. I'm thinking, workplace, art gallery staff, pub staff - Wetherspoons as well as the more alternative pubs, Sainsbury's, theatre (actors and audience).

Have you considered that you're not actually seeing so many trans women and instead are just deciding that women who aren't performing femininity enough for you are trans? I have a lot of gay family and we live in one of the biggest cities in the UK and even at Pride weekend I didn't see the number of trans people that you claim to see in every day life.

Shortshriftandlethal · 06/10/2026 18:24

alcovecupboards · 06/10/2026 17:44

I don't think you're seeing reality particularly clearly. There are bars and restaurants packed across the country with drag queens hosting events full of mainly women customers. If anything you said was true then that wouldn't be the case.

I'm aware of that...it doesn't change what I said.

Shortshriftandlethal · 06/10/2026 18:29

alcovecupboards · 06/10/2026 17:47

Have you considered that you're not actually seeing so many trans women and instead are just deciding that women who aren't performing femininity enough for you are trans? I have a lot of gay family and we live in one of the biggest cities in the UK and even at Pride weekend I didn't see the number of trans people that you claim to see in every day life.

Well you clearly aren't taking in your environment very well. I also live in a big UK city and have gay family members and friends( most people do) and quite frequently see men presenting themselves as women, and have done for years.

Women who were "not performing femininity" would not be wearing mini skirts or dresses; having their hair long, or be wearing obvious make-up would they? We can all tell the difference between a man and a woman. Having short hair does not make a woman look like a man; and a man in a dress is still a man in a dress.

Imdunfer · 06/10/2026 18:57

alcovecupboards · 06/10/2026 17:42

There's a thriving industry in 'false willies' used almost exclusively by lesbians.

Those are dildos, they are sex toys, they aren't worn to impersonate a penis in normal life. It would be bloody uncomfortable because for their function they need to be erect.

Also not exclusive to lesbians at all.

You're desperate, aren't you?

alcovecupboards · 06/10/2026 22:14

Shortshriftandlethal · 06/10/2026 18:29

Well you clearly aren't taking in your environment very well. I also live in a big UK city and have gay family members and friends( most people do) and quite frequently see men presenting themselves as women, and have done for years.

Women who were "not performing femininity" would not be wearing mini skirts or dresses; having their hair long, or be wearing obvious make-up would they? We can all tell the difference between a man and a woman. Having short hair does not make a woman look like a man; and a man in a dress is still a man in a dress.

Edited

Apparently not! But then I don't go around in a state of constant searching for anyone gender non-conforming. Life's too short!

alcovecupboards · 06/10/2026 22:16

Imdunfer · 06/10/2026 18:57

Those are dildos, they are sex toys, they aren't worn to impersonate a penis in normal life. It would be bloody uncomfortable because for their function they need to be erect.

Also not exclusive to lesbians at all.

You're desperate, aren't you?

I think you'll find strap-ons were made for - and by - lesbians almost exclusively. The word almost was there. Have you actually had a conversation with any lesbians?

KittyWilkinson · 06/10/2026 22:42

alcovecupboards · 06/10/2026 22:16

I think you'll find strap-ons were made for - and by - lesbians almost exclusively. The word almost was there. Have you actually had a conversation with any lesbians?

You are talking to quite a few lesbians on this thread. Real ones.

SmashThePatriarchy · 06/10/2026 22:43

He’s a right knob isn’t he.

alcovecupboards · 06/10/2026 23:01

KittyWilkinson · 06/10/2026 22:42

You are talking to quite a few lesbians on this thread. Real ones.

Apparently not!

KittyWilkinson · 06/10/2026 23:04

Some people don't get out much do they? Claims that butch lesbians are pretending to be men, claims that lesbians spend their days with strap on willies along with cries of Careful Mavis or you'll have me eye out!
Lesbians ate my hamster.
(Sorry, that last one was someone else.)

GreyskySexRealistsky · 06/10/2026 23:05

KittyWilkinson · 06/10/2026 22:42

You are talking to quite a few lesbians on this thread. Real ones.

Not so much talking to them as speaking for them, Kitty