'I've been disowned and shamed for saying women footballers must be boen with ovaries' Oliver Brown in The Telegraph

[impossibletoday]

A woman from Los Angeles

‘I’ve been disowned and shamed for saying women footballers must be born with ovaries’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/4c6e0d006499e2b7

I wish I hadn't.
Transphobia has its dark counterpart of racism.
Banda is a cis woman, and the test saying Banda is not a woman is bogus.
Elizabeth is simply a paid gun for hire in the disgusting Trump culture war to eradicate trans.
She's also a talentless grifter who hardly played (bench warmer trope).
And this developing narrative that GC standards for women are white Western women who'll not stop at invasive genital inspections, painful blood tests, body shaming black women and DSDs, because they can never match the imperialist white Western stereotype.
Basically, Karens will point to any woman who doesn't look like them and dismiss them all.
...so, yet again the TRA side resorts more and more to hyperbole, to insults, less and less to examining the truth.
They're off their trolley.
And the truth hurts otherwise they'd spend next to no time character assassinating Elizabeth (and Sophie before her).

What Moldy’s linked article mentioned was Elizabeth Eddy’s team mate

”Eddy’s own teammate Prisca Chilufya, a Zambian international who has spoken about being intersex and joined Angel City recently after playing most of the season for Orlando”

Chilufya was another of the players who did not play for Zambia due to the sex screening refusal or maybe testosterone suppression. If this player is claiming to be intersex and female, there is a very high likelihood that this is a male athlete, particularly if they were part of the group that did not play for Zambia at the time of the controversy.

I expect that this team member will have prompted the response from Gordon and Anderson.

I suspect that there will be some retirements when FIFA finally bring in the regulations that will follow the IOC decision.

Zambian officials have effectively disclosed that Banda is male with male levels of testosterone by reporting about testosterone suppression. Chilufya has been upfront that they have a DSD.

I've seen the interview, hey I'm notoriously poor at accurate sexing of individuals, but this Prisca is a barn door of a male.
To watch the denialism in the room as he's interviewed by his teammates is unreal.
I'm seeing an individual who like Imane Khelif was likely brought up as a girl, then adolescence revealed the truth, but the fantasy isn't corrected, and hey, DSDs are such an advantage in women's sport, so the fantasy is ramped up.
Throw in the modern story of the migrant fighting the odds to get to the West, and thrive, and you have a potent story full of intersectional brownie points.
And young females inculcated in a decade plus of a education system that allows this fantasy to embed, because, guess what, noone in society other than the brave ones like JKR speak out.
A decade of critical thinking trashed, vanishingly few in society speaking up, and young women more and more seeing womanhood as a series of categories, means that Prisca is absolutely a woman to so many of his teammates, a woman that has so fought the odds to survive and thrive that noone can convince them otherwise.
The Q is, how endemic is this mindset in the young women of the West?

In fact, the Human Rights Watch article was really very telling.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/07/13/zambian-woman-footballer-sex-tested-because-fifa-allows-it

They discuss Dutee as a comparison.

Dutee is an athlete who refused to lower their testosterone which is an admission that Dutee is a male athlete. And Dutee knows that Dutee is a male person with a body that not only produces testosterone from Dutee's testes but processes it to develop male physical advantage.

That is why Dutee was expected to lower his testosterone.

What an article...man with DSD plays in female team...sex testing confirms it...and the sin is...that sex testing was done....and thus the results of the sex testing should be ignored.
Truth denialism is too weak a phrase for this.
This is literally the early church seeing evidence of the Earth orbiting the sun, and burying their heads in the sand (oh, and torturing certain astronomers, we don't do that anymore, we just cancel them).

Maybe it is a good time to remind lurkers of why we are in this predicament now

HISTORY OF SEX TESTING IN THE OLYMPICS AND THE GROUP WHO SUCCESSFULLY CAMPAIGNED TO HAVE SEX TESTING DROPPED

www.nature.com/articles/gim2000258.pdf?origin=ppub&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100045542&CJEVENT=f4d4c8630a0411ed831b01a80a1c0e11

Louis J. Elsas ,MD' , Arne Ljungqvist, MD', Malcolm A. Ferguson-Smith, MA,FRCP, JoeLeigh Simpson, MD', Myron Genel, MD5, Alison S. Carlson ,BA, Elizabeth Ferris, MBBS', Albert de la Chapelle, MD, Anke A. Ehrhardt, phD

July/August 2000

"On-site gender verification has since been found to be highly discriminatory, and the cause of emotional trauma and social stigmatization for many females with problems of intersex who have been screened out from competition. Despite compelling evidence for the lack of scientific merit for chromosome-based screening for gender, as well as its functional and ethical inconsistencies, the IOC persisted in its policy for 30 years."

"The coauthors of this manuscript have worked with some success to rescind this policy through educating athletes and sports governors regarding the psychological and physical nature of sexual differentiation, and the inequities of genetic sex testing."

THE OLYMPIC TIMELINE ON THE INCLUSION OF MALE PEOPLE IN FEMALE SPORT

Just to recap how we got here in my opinion

1992 - Dr. Arne Ljungqvist becomes a member of the IOC and continue to date an educational program to inform the IOC about scientific and
ethical issues related to laboratory-based gender verification.

1996 - Most major professional medical societies have passed resolutions against chromosome-based gender screening in sports.

1996-1997 - IOC World Congress on Woman and Sport passes a resolution to abandon gender verification at the Olympics. Women's Sports Foundation
publishes a policy statement against blanket chromosome screening in support of IAAF model. The Norwegian parliament outlaws gender verification in sport. The IOC Medical Commission is unconvinced and the Atlanta Committee for the Olympic Games is contractually committed to on-site, laboratory-based, gender veritication of all female althletes competing in women's events.

1997-1998 - Arguments for and against change are presented to the IOC Athlete Commission by Professor A. Liungqvist and Dr. B. Dingeon, respectively. Prince de Merode and Dr. Hay argue for their original policy of blanket gender verification at IOC-sponsored sporting events. Athletes Commission nonetheless calls for the discontinuation of the present system and rccommenda replacing it with a "reserve clause" system based on IOC Medical Commission intervention on an individualized basis, following scientific and ethical guidelines.

1999 - IOC Executive Board accepts unanimous recommendations of its Athletes Commission. Blanket gender verification screening of all female
athletes will not be conducted at the 2000 Millennia1 Games in Sydney, on a conditional basis for later review.

Importantly, for the 1996 Atlanta Olympics they surveyed the female athletes and found:

"At the time of testing, all female athletes at the Atlanta Games were offered a questionnaire written in both English and French asking whether in their view testing of females should be continued in future Olympics and whether or not
they were made anxious by the testing procedure. Of the 928 athletes who responded, 82% felt that testing should be continued and 94% indicated that they were not made anxious by the procedure. Forty-six athletes were made "anxious" by the testing requirements that preceded their competitive events.
No males were found to masquerade as females, and all females who were found to be SRY positive competed."

"Of the 928 athletes who responded, 82% felt that testing should be continued"

www.nature.com/articles/gim2000258.pdf?origin=ppub&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100045542&CJEVENT=f4d4c8630a0411ed831b01a80a1c0e11

2003 - Stockholm Consensus proposal
"In 2003, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) Medical Commission, claiming guidance from “the best information available at the time,” decided to allow male transsexuals to compete in the women’s category. This decision was contingent upon several conditions to ensure fairness: a) the removal of their testes at least two years prior to competition; b) legal recognition as “female”; and c) hormone profiles aligned with those of natal females."

archive.today/F5HFc

2004 - May 2004 they announce that they will allowed male people who surgically removed their testes to compete in female competition. Because once you allow one group of male people in, you must equally allow the other in or you are discriminating against transgender people.

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-approves-consensus-with-regard-to-athletes-who-have-changed-sex-1

2015 -Then in 2015, a campaign group including Harper, using Harper’s flawed study (see nequals8.com web site) convinces the IOC that it is unfair discrimination to exclude any male with a transgender identity describing themselves as a woman. The IOC changes the policy to allow them.

https://nequals8.com

^https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/race-times-for-transgender-athletes^

https://stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

2016 -Then came the Rio trio in the female 800m and we start to see the testosterone suppression of the male people with DSDs come in. Semenya takes this to court in 2019. Appealed 2020. The evidence presented confirmed 5ARD and testosterone of 21 nmol/L.

2021 - 2020 Tokyo games held in 2021 was the testosterone suppressed games. Hubbard, a late 40 something male in female event where next youngest was probably a decade and a half younger, shines light on the issue.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/29/ioc-praises-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-transgender-athletes-olympic-debut

The IOC reacts by announcing a review.

The new guidelines released Nov 2021 devolve responsibility for policy to each discipline’s international federation. ie. They force the sporting federations to make the hard decisions that the IOC refuse to make.

https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Beyond-the-Games/Human-Rights/IOC-Framework-Fairness-Inclusion-Non-discrimination-2021.pdf#_ga=2.219716894.621299853.1686571450-594927581.1678187184

They also reaffirm that 'inclusivity' is their over all priority. They say that safety is as well, but this is clearly contradictory when you consider boxing as an example.

The IOC is clear that they RECOGNISE that the inclusion of male athletes will be UNFAIR but their priority is inclusion. Richard Budgett said this.

The federations then develop their own policies. that have done this are : FINA, WA, UCI, IBA and WR. FIFA for instance announced a review years ago and done nothing. IBA announced their new policy in 22/23.

The WA have even stated that their new guidelines for the Olympics immediately excluded 13 males with DSDs with testosterone advantage from the competitions until those 13 male athletes chose to reduce their testosterone to 2.5 nmol/L for 2 years. 13 just in athletics competitions alone! (By the way, this reduction has already been shown to not eliminate unfair male advantage, but this is where we are at the moment.)

By the IOC removing the IBA from organising the boxing, the IOC left boxing only with the IOC inclusive guidelines.

So, we know from the announcement by Budgett from IOC in November 2021 that fairness was a lower priority to inclusion. It was along the lines of ‘we know it is unfair to include male people with pubertal advantage, but inclusion is our aim.’

And the IOC and other organisations still claim that Semenya is a 'female with naturally high testosterone' to this day. Despite the world being easily able to find the evidence presented to the CAS that Semenya is MALE with 5-ARD and had tested with a testosterone level of 21nmol/L. NO female has that level and is healthy. They are likely to be gravely ill.

2025 - Kirsty Coventry announces that she will 'protect' women's sport and that a committee will review the evidence.

2026 UPDATE TO THE IOC FEMALE SPORTS CATEGORY ELIGIBILITY POLICY

Here is the statement:
https://www.olympics.com/ioc/news/international-olympic-committee-announces-new-policy-on-the-protection-of-the-female-women-s-category-in-olympic-sport

here is the policy
https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/International-Olympic-Committee/EB/policy/policy-on-the-protection-of-the-female-category-english.pdf

This is under the definitions section:

Sex: Either of the two categories, Male or Female, into which humans are divided according to their reproductive biology.

Biological Female (Female): An individual who, regardless of their legal sex or gender identity, experienced female sex development usually based on their XX-chromosomes, ovaries, and estrogenic hormones.

Biological Male (Male): An individual who, regardless of their legal sex or gender identity, experienced male sex development usually based on their XY-chromosomes, testes/testicles and androgenic hormones.

This entire mess was a social experiment in inclusion that lasted for more than two decades. It should never have been allowed to happen.

And yet... it did. And female athletes and feminists are the ones being demonised for fighting to protect female single sex sports again.

My God. I'm speechless.

Remember though....

Female athletes are grifters for the far right if they speak about following the IOC protocols.

Feminists are considered derelict in their roles if they support the protection of female single sex sports because they should be doing other things completely and should allow male people to just play sports with their mates in the female single sex sports category.

Any female who discusses the issue should be considered not just racist but transphobic and demonised and considered ignorant.

And yet, have we seen one shred of evidence from posters defending the inclusion of male people in female sports categories that it is at all fair and/or safe? No. And they never link anything up either.

Their discussion is purely based on emotional manipulation. That is all they have.

Thanks @Helleofabore , a really enlightening history.

Well what a surprise my comment was deleted touched a raw nerve obviously.

Inclusion = excluding women from the women's category in order to make room for men

But I think most people want to see fair play in sports. Most people dislike cheats.

Years ago someone on this board said that it would be men in women's sport that would peak the public. And I think they were right.

Sport has been a significant beacon.

There was a messaging guide published by a USA Transgender law centre that warned people to avoid discussing sport at all costs. Because they knew several years ago after Hubbard and the Olympics that sport was where the argument was failing. They also advised to tie discussions to issues like race for maximum appeal.

From December 2021
static1.squarespace.com/static/5fd0f29d0d626c5fb471be74/t/61b13d00236e2f7f2dbb9a36/1639005441624/Transgender+Youth+and+the+Freedom+to+Be+Ourselves.pdf

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4439659-Ryan-Grim-results-of-latest-trans-activism-poll-A-tweaked-playbook-for-the-US?reply=113763453

It is why activists are so desperate to shut down any discussion, hence the discussion revolves around vilification of any female athlete that speaks out.

Interestingly, there was very little said about the female tennis players who were asked the question about sex screening. The vast majority confirmed they were supportive. It happened around the same time as Sophie Cunningham started to speak out. She was vilified. The tennis players? Hardly a peep. Because the majority of interviewed players on those televised interviews agreed that sex screening should happen.

So, in the late 90s, the vast VAST majority of female athletes agree that genetic testing is both right, and non intrusive.
Yet, they were totally ignored.
And the public would have had no idea of anything going on other than only females allowed into the female category.
Can you believe the opportunities that opened up?
DSD men in developing nations sadly ostracized at home for being neither fish now fowl suddenly found meaning in life.
Sports associations, individual coaches in the female category suddenly found a way to cheat "legally".
Men who doped and were caught were dirt, but men who automatically naturally doped as a "beneficiary" of DSD and puberty excelled and were lauded for it (most recent prominent example being Imane Khelif).
Women in sport in the 90s/00s inculcated into this cross-categorisation, the penalties on speaking out so onerous that it just becomes second nature.
And now as the wall on this starts to shift, one brick at a time, the shaming of women not prepared to stay silent anymore, from Riley to Sophie to Elizabeth, a side order of Maya, Martina, Sharon is ramped up to feverish anti truth language.
From Caster Semanya, father of children, still championed as a female athlete of color, the first victim of the combined sins of transphobic racism, to these recent articles where the very fact a genetic test proves Barry Banya is a male is not only dismissed, but is deemed racist itself for proving the male identity (first time I've ever seen a swab and lab procedure be deemed in an of themselves racist), to the frantic slinging of mud...Riley and Sophie and Elizabeth are paid shills, zero consequence no marks in their sports.
The decades long inertia is slow to shift, but the TRAs in sports media on these stories know instinctively their grip is loosening, and this is only one way now.
So, the language gets ruder, the tone more shrill, the demands more outlandish.
I've shifted from the naive hope I had once that more TRAs in positions of influence in sport, the cheating male trans and male DSDs finding what's fair again, the journalists tasked with investigating what's true (not declaring what fantasy world they want to maintain), and the actual women and men in sport to say what sport is all about, that all are included (thus TIMs male DSDs welcome in open mixed or men's categories, but the women's category has the tightest entry of all).
I don't feel bad that only a few prominent and even fewer less than prominent women have spoken out. Look what happens when they do. But that most every sportsMAN has said nothing, is truly a sin.
Unlike Macklemore, these men wouldn't have to lecture crowds at meets as he demands he does at Sheeran gigs (in this case, that TWAW/male DSDs are women is fake and a danger physically in women's sport, and existential threat to the female category, but there would be other ways they could have got the message out there.
Yes, I'm looking at the most political voice in sport, Gary Lineker.
But it looks like three decades of the "inclusion" experiment in sport coinciding with so many young people not taught critical thinking had corrupted women's sport and any meaningful pushback.
Until now...

Not at all. Just try not to throw out accusations based on racist, sexist or misogynist tropes, especially those without evidence or ‘evidence’ from dodgy sources.

Otherwise, have at it.

Impressed by how Gordon managed to work in an accusation of racism - equivalent to shouting "Communist" or "Heretic" in the USA Today - and never addressed the actual issue. No wonder she was nervous - terrified she'd slip up and be ostracized herself, no doubt.

The other aspect of this post that shows how little this poster thinks these issues through before posting soundbite inspired trope, is that this poster and others, including the people writing articles like the one linked, also use this distraction of focusing on male people with transgender identities.

‘anti-trans’

When the issue is protection of female sports categories from any male person with a body producing and /or capable of processing testosterone to masculinise.

After leveraging male people with DSDs for forcing access over 20 years ago, now the issue is narrowed to male people with transgender identities in an effort to discredit and derogate. Now the attention is being focused on ‘but there are no male people with transgender identities in the league anyway’ to support the claim of these brave women being described as ‘bigots’!

After all, if there are no male people with transgender identities in the leagues anyway, these female athletes are merely attention seeking ‘grifters’, bigots, and their points are dismissed as ‘culture war’.

Meanwhile, the male people with DSDs who are well known to have been included in female sports categories, and still are for numerous sports organisations, were useful not only to leverage the other male people into the sports, but now are conveniently ignored to demonise those female people who reject that inclusion. Sure there may be no male people
with transgender identities in the league, but let’s ignore the male people with DSDs so we can falsely describe any discussion as ‘anti-trans’.

It is not working though.

Because the population have started doing wider reading and they are having discussions. Khelif shocked the public. Semenya inspired sympathy from so many. Khelif did not. So now the ludicrously obvious tactics are rolled out.

I do think we have to thank those posters who have used such tactics though. More and more people read along and indicate they are reading with the post reactions.

But posts like this one quoted and articles like the one linked there show just how willing to use any other group possible these supporters are to progress the demands of male people over the needs of female people. Any group possible is force teamed and leveraged. What a movement!

Yep. There is an argument about just how racist those people misusing the accusation are.

Imagine describing people as racist while your own accusation reinforces the very concept you are using to vilify the person you are calling racist. Imagine calling out behaviour you wish to frame as holding black women to standards of beauty, when in actual fact you are defending male people who are participating in female sports.

The action is calling out others for saying women look masculine while those ‘women’ are in fact male people. In other words, it vilifies those pointing out the truth.

That act will be studied in the future as an example of activist gaslighting. It is a form of DARVO.

Thank you @Helleofabore .

Your well informed explanations of the history of the colonisation of women's sport by men is very informative. And also explains why those men are so desperate to derail women's discussions about all this with their delusional claims of anti trans and inaccurate claims about the law.

Sharron Davies said that women only receive around 5% of the global sports funding. We know that Semenya has taken over £5 million of that.

I wonder what the total figure is for all of the male athletes with 46 XY 5ard?

Everywhere you look men cheating in women's sport cheats women out of places, awards and funding. Not to mention signalling to girls that what men demand, they get.

The bogus 'racist' claim is reinforced by this old Guardian article which claims that different ethnic groups have higher levels of testosterone.

The thinking being that african woman could therefore have higher levels than other racial groups.

That the higher level is because these are men competing in women's sport isn't even examined.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/mar/29/how-barbra-banda-got-caught-up-in-a-swirl-of-misinformation-and-double-standards

Prisca Chilufya was excluded from the 2020 Tokyo Olympics and the 2022 African Cup of Nations for the very reason that they have a male DSD. It has been obvious to me (and others) that these athletes have been deliberately sourced because of their (male) DSD and the physical advantages it gives them over women.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisca_Chilufya