'I've been disowned and shamed for saying women footballers must be boen with ovaries' Oliver Brown in The Telegraph

[impossibletoday]

A woman from Los Angeles

‘I’ve been disowned and shamed for saying women footballers must be born with ovaries’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/4c6e0d006499e2b7

The other thing that's noticeable from the two presenters is how giggly they are with the guest, how flirtatious almost.
The kind of thing that naturally happens when women are in the presence of extended communication with men, if a situation is safe and friendly.
Wow, those sex based evolutionary mechanisms strike again.

Well he's, in purely physical terms, an attractive man, great teeth, very square jaw, good physique, deep voice... Just not nearly a woman.

Trans women can't even play grassroots football in the UK with their mates (as fewer than 30 in a nation of 60m+ people were doing at the time of the ban).

But sure, during a rape epidemic where virtually no one's ever prosecuted for harming women, let's platform a cis bloke telling women what their bodies should be like. Proper feminism that.

There are no cis blokes. Just blokes

“It’s completely out of touch with reality,” Eddy says. “It’s like the ugly underbelly of feminism. There’s a lot of good feminism, but then there’s some that crosses the line to become the opposite. It goes back to an idea of ‘we’re all victims, and all the victims need to come together’. That seems to be more the priority. Women have rights, but now women are giving up those rights for those they see as more oppressed. I just think, ‘What are we doing?’”

🎯

Trans women can't even play grassroots football in the UK with their mates

Yes they can. They can play with their male mates in men’s teams and they can play in mixed sex teams. Again, you’re welcome.

Fucking hell..

This is some very weak distraction tactic, to be sure along with numerous slugs of emotional manipulation.

So, we have

-more 'it is just a few'
-also 'won't you think about the poor male people with transgender identities who cannot even play football with their mates'.

-then we segue into 'why aren't you focusing on the rape crisis'. Which is not only remarkable because this is someone posting on a specific board for the discussion of the negative impact of male people accessing female single sex provisions, but it is misogynistic to assume that feminists are not also doing something to campaign for rape crisis and VAWAG, AND misogynistic to tell feminists what they should be focused on.

Then there is the ignorance that goes along with the fact that ignoring these issues associated with male people with transgender identities accessing female single sex provisions adds significantly to the burden of female rape victims.... but heeeyyyy... look over there people and not at this needless additional burden on rape victims!

And don't forget that while feminists have a split focus in minimising the negative impact of male people declaring that they are somehow female and and accessing female single sex provisions, feminists have not been able to focus more on other issues... it is a large dose of victim blaming as well.

Fucking well done!!!

But... which 'cis bloke' is telling women what their bodies should be like? Oliver Brown? Nah... he is reporting on the male people who have been allowed to access female protected categories of sport due to policies that don't protect female sport.

I really don't think that you are any type of feminist or maybe you just hate feminists. These are the arguments of men's rights activists though.

(as fewer than 30 in a nation of 60m+ people were doing at the time of the ban)

If TW are actually women, why would it matter whether there were 30 or 30 thousand? You know that they are men, otherwise you wouldn't be constantly telling us how few of them there are.

I forgot to mention this earlier.

"Banda is a cisgender woman, and the Zambian Football Association was critical of the testing standards at the time."

"cis' is a meaningless term. And this usage shows why.

And posts using 'cis' are a good reminder that the term 'cis' is meaningless because the term includes any male person who has a DSD yet has a body that is **formed around the production of small gametes that has any degree of sensitivity to any of the testosterone that body produces.

Using this word, cis, then means there is no word left for female people.
Because even male people are now saying they are also ‘female’ . When ^^ female means only a person of the sex category where that person's body has been formed around the production of large gametes, regardless of whether the body does, has or ever will produce those large gametes. ie that requires the presence of ovaries or ovarian tissue - never testes. This has also recently been the basis of the new IOC policy too,

(from the IOC policy:

This is under the definitions section:

Sex: Either of the two categories, Male or Female, into which humans are divided according to their reproductive biology.
Biological Female (Female): An individual who, regardless of their legal sex or gender identity, experienced female sex development usually based on their XX-chromosomes, ovaries, and estrogenic hormones.

https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/International-Olympic-Committee/EB/policy/policy-on-the-protection-of-the-female-category-english.pdf )

In fact, we now have examples of many male people declaring that they are female people. So even the word for female has become meaningless in that sense.

But 'cis' is a* *word that was repurposed from its original usage and is meaningless for the purpose of discussing female people in its current usage. It has been used in academic papers as well in an attempt at using inclusive language which then renders the papers meaningless because the term is not describing a unique grouping of human bodies, even when it claims to be doing just that.

To see how this works, we have been told that 'girl' and 'woman' both now include:

1 Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **.
2 Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.
3 And any person who has a female body ^^.

Under the label of 'girl' and 'woman', extreme transgender activists have been telling us for years that those labels break down into two types of girls or women:

Cis and Transwomen/transgirls.

These terms mean:
Cis
= (1) Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **
and
= (3) Any person who has a female body^^
Trans
= (2) Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.

Therefore there is no unique word to mean female people who have a body ^^ formed around the production of large gametes.

Cis is meaningless as a unique description for female people and it always was. It is also misogynistic because it leaves female people with no unique word for their needs.

And that is not even covering the discussion about forcibly categorising someone to believe in gender identity when they don’t, which is what the use of ‘cis’ forces.

Here is a handy pic to show just how meaningless 'cis' is.

Indeed.

Let’s add misinformation to the list of the fallacies, distraction tactics, misogyny and inaccuracies in that post.

All in just a few sentences.

Wow this so sad

Misogynistic women running to do men's dirty work for them. Destroying women's rights and any chance of fair play in football. All the while thinking they are the good ones in this story.

Eddy's words were so clear, respectful and compassionate. She spoke the truth and never reserved the backlash she got. Her courage and integrity are admirable.

She's a person of colour and <still> doesn't know what a racist comment is?
And this is a person who's proud to demonstrate her ignorance in public?
It's breathtaking.

Banda is a cisgender woman

Nope. Banda is not any kind of woman.

We've all read Elizabeth's comments closely. It's clear how absolutely non judgemental, non-racist, non-homophobic, and indeed non-transphobic they are.
She's simply stating women's sport must be for women, and thus SRY testing must be mandatory to prevent men and male DSDs identifying as women (and by extension TIMs) from being in women's soccer.
There is literally nothing else she's said, no value judgements, no labelling.
Yet, whether honest or dishonest, her peers and teammates have warped her words to say they're transphobic, racist and all the rest.
So Elizabeth is doubly wounded, not only does her beloved sport of women's soccer become unisex, but she is now criticised in poor faith for things she never said or intimated.
Right here in this episode you can see the extent of the rot. Women inculcated into #BeingKind despite the ideology being unkind, indeed category-ending to women.
And in the way of the Omnicause, seeing any resistance to trans to be also defacto anti blacks, anti developing nations, pro imperial and pro colonial.
The whole of the Omnicause is a package deal with no nuance and depending on a whole generation of young people to not have to develop any critical thinking at all.
Their thinking is taken care of for them, all that's left is to display hyper emotionalism.
There were 7 year olds from my generation who showed more considered logic than today's social justice warriors.

I read this part a little differently

'Banda is a cis-gender woman .... and the Zambian ... '

When I read that I thought it meant Banda is being picked on because she just happens to look like a bloke. She isn't really and it's unfair. Banda is a biological woman and it's racist to suggest otherwise based on her appearance.

The Zambian's think that the testing was faulty. They should know what a Zambian woman looks like.

It's racist for a white woman to try and tell us what sex someone from Zambia is.

It's also racist to tell the Zambian's what the best test is.

The fact that Banda may possibly be a genetic male with ambiguous genitals at birth isn't even considered.

The fact that these athletes come from poor african nations seem to add to this smoke screen of willful ignorance.

Still to this day it amazes me how many words and how much confusion we have mustered as a human race on this topic.

Yes a race which is literally dependent on the difference between males and females to exist.

Elizabeth Eddy is another bench-warming grifter who has been platformed (and paid) to attack women's leagues whose fans and participants support trans inclusion. No one had heard of her or Cunningham until they went anti-trans. There are literally no trans women in either league.

It's entirely legal in the UK to have teams which include members of two protected characteristics, so there is no law which prevents trans women playing alongside cis women, and excluding men. The same applies to Guides and the WI. It's up to the organisations if they want to do it.

https://defector.com/the-anti-trans-grifters-are-coming-for-the-nwsl

FIFA sells the World Cup to the highest bidder, doesn't give a shit about human rights and gave Donald Trump a 'peace medal'. This is perfectly on brand for them.

(I'm having trouble loading the conversation, so apologies if this has been pointed out a lot.)

"When I read that I thought it meant Banda is being picked on because she just happens to look like a bloke. She isn't really and it's unfair. Banda is a biological woman and it's racist to suggest otherwise based on her appearance."

That is, I believe, what the article meant.

However, there is conflicting reports on whether any test was ever actually done.

This Human Rights Watch article (July 13, 2022) is ambiguous,

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/07/13/zambian-woman-footballer-sex-tested-because-fifa-allows-it

" In Banda’s case, the Confederation of African Football (CAF) appears to have carried out the sex test, though a CAF spokesperson later denied this. A representative of the Football Association of Zambia said CAF conducted the test, but conceded that the national organization is also compelled to sex test its players."

This earlier ESPN article talks about the four players refusing to suppress testosterone on the Zambian team.

www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37629835/zambia-fa-critical-stringent-barbra-banda-hormone-tests

Jul 6, 2022

"Banda, 22, was one of four players omitted from Zambia's final AWCON squad after refusing to undergo hormone suppression treatment, after her testosterone levels were said to be above the Confederation of African Football's limit for the tournament."

and

"Mungala acknowledged that the Zambian federation were made aware that Banda's testosterone levels were outside CAF's guidelines in the aftermath of her star turn at the Olympics, and that a course of hormone suppression was offered to the attacker and the other Zambian players about whom concerns were raised.

"Our medics engaged the players and they weren't willing to go through with it -- I think there are possible side effects," Mungala continued.
"With the players not going down that route and taking up that option, the final decision was that they could not be included in the final list for the competition." "

.Sydney Mungala was FAZ (Football Association Zambia or Zambian Football Association depending on which order they say it) communications director. So, I assume that the sex screening was done and the federation knew accurately about their players sex category.

Here is the thing

No female athlete needs to suppress their natural testosterone level to play in female sports categories!

Only male athletes do. No female will likely pass a performance enhancing drug test if they are on exogenous testosterone that delivers testosterone at levels that are typically male. If a female person has such elevated natural testosterone production, they are likely very very ill and need urgent medical treatment.

On the thread linked below (please do not post discussion posts on that thread)

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?page=1

There are two very handy charts that show there is no overlap between healthy male and healthy female testosterone production ranges. It has been very well documented.

If any person thinks that a female athlete will be required to suppress their naturally produced testosterone, I suggest they read the now numerous papers linked to that thread. It does not happen. It is deliberately confusing phraseology for 'this is an athlete who has tested positive for an SRY gene and has healthy male levels of testosterone that are being produced in their testes and processed by their body.'

There is a reason sporting federations don't make such accurate declarations.

But once you understand that no female athlete is required to suppress their naturally produced testosterone, you see the pattern.

Yawn, bogus test, yawn.
This is all you've got, really?
No wonder you come out all guns blazes, but you're firing blanks.
So interesting that this is where the TRAs like you are going, that men with DSDs are indeed women, like Khelif etc, and that the arguments will more and more be that gender critical is a colonial, imperialist cudgel, that white women in the West will biologically determine what fits the correct model of womanhood, and that won't be DSDs. And then black women. And then lesbians. And then disabled women. And then infertile women. Etc etc etc, yada yada yada.
And that all the young women brought up in the Omnicause theory like the two footballers in the video will intersectionally take these DSDs as women because the West must atone for how it's treated people's from developing countries.
The very definition of niche, and it is indeed sad to see so many young women apply no critical thinking.
That's what decades of education in the West gets you.

It's like deciding human is not a clear biological category & seals can compete in human swimming competitions, where they will be massively successful, because some humans have rare conditions & may not be able to use complex language or walk on two legs & other criteria used to help differentiate humans from seals.

Always the criticism that these are Right culture warriors spouting hate on Fox etc.
What did I read about Kara Dansky...for years she pleaded with the likes of CNN, WaPo, NYT etc to allow her on, to argue her case.
She was basically blacklisted from every one. Even though she's a paid up leftist journalist.
That left the likes of Fox...
Oh, and when it comes to insults like bench warming, better that than dick pandering.

Here is the archive link for anyone wanting to read this

https://archive.is/z1oIi

This article doesn’t actually label Elizabeth Eddy a ‘grifter’ from what I can see.

What makes her a ‘grifter’ again?

Holding an opinion and making that opinion public? Is that it?

This article is very poorly written and seems to lack much of substance. It fails to adequately address the issue that Elizabeth brought up and continues to blame her for the image selection of the editorial team.

The thing about sports is that they are rules-based. Arbitrary rules - why can't you catch the ball in soccer and run down the pitch with it like in rugby, or bouncing it as you go along as in basketball?
Why can't a middleweight boxer fight a flyweight?
Why can't you have as many goes as you like in tennis to get your serve in?
Why is it a triple jump not a quadruple one?

One of the numerous rules in many sports is that the category 'males' do not compete against the category 'females', just like middleweights don't box against flyweights etc.
And just like weight categories are clearly defined, and have to be adhered to at the weigh-in, the categories of sex are also clearly defined, and have to be adhered to.

Only biological females are eligible for women's sports. Only biological males are eligible for men's sports. Both are eligible for mixed sports. Those are the rules.

Real sports fans should accept that that's the way some sports are regulated, get over it and stick to complaining about VAR or something ..