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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Incel banned from womens toilets and changing rooma

59 replies

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 10:51

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd9489jewq7o

Known misogynist handed a sexual harm prevention order.

Victor scowls at the camera in a police custody picture. He has a short scruffy beard and thin scraggly hair which falls over his face.

Cheltenham incel who 'posed risk' to women handed harm order

Victor Valentine is banned from using incel websites and loitering outside women's toilets.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd9489jewq7o

OP posts:
itwasyourshowallalong · Yesterday 12:42

Fucking hell, I didn’t realise that was an actual picture - I thought it was a really bad e-fit 😮

Additup · Yesterday 12:46

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:40

Polished/managed/curated: certainly not made out to be a monster because of his image at the time.

I knew someone personally who knew JS in professional capacity through his charitable work and met him a few times.

They told me JS was very openly sleazy around women in a really obvious and shocking way.

When all the revelations came out it can't have been a surprise to many I think. Even watching him on TV when much younger used to make my spider senses work overtime.

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:47

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 11:58

Evidence suggests women are better at identifying dark triad traits from faces.

Plus we learn to trust our instincts.

The very, very large number of victims of male predators who are known to the victim suggests this is wrong.

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:54

Additup · Yesterday 12:46

I knew someone personally who knew JS in professional capacity through his charitable work and met him a few times.

They told me JS was very openly sleazy around women in a really obvious and shocking way.

When all the revelations came out it can't have been a surprise to many I think. Even watching him on TV when much younger used to make my spider senses work overtime.

Well done them for not speaking out or preventing JS from getting continued opportunities to abuse more victims.

And yes, why couldn't the victims have seen through the consistent portrayal of JS as a modern day saint from across the media, politics and the royal family? It is a mystery...

Helleofabore · Yesterday 12:56

I take it that this also mean that any other male person who persists in using a female single sex provision can receive one of these orders?

Cheese55 · Yesterday 12:58

Additup · Yesterday 12:46

I knew someone personally who knew JS in professional capacity through his charitable work and met him a few times.

They told me JS was very openly sleazy around women in a really obvious and shocking way.

When all the revelations came out it can't have been a surprise to many I think. Even watching him on TV when much younger used to make my spider senses work overtime.

I think his extended family knew? Didn't he abuse one of the girls in his family when he would appear with gifts periodically.

Additup · Yesterday 12:58

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:54

Well done them for not speaking out or preventing JS from getting continued opportunities to abuse more victims.

And yes, why couldn't the victims have seen through the consistent portrayal of JS as a modern day saint from across the media, politics and the royal family? It is a mystery...

That's very, very unfair. I have absolutely no idea if they spoke out or tried to have JS removed from the charity work. They certainly told all and sundry what he was like as a person.

Pleasantsort2 · Yesterday 13:01

Poor wee soul jist needs a befriender!😭

Cheese55 · Yesterday 13:03

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:54

Well done them for not speaking out or preventing JS from getting continued opportunities to abuse more victims.

And yes, why couldn't the victims have seen through the consistent portrayal of JS as a modern day saint from across the media, politics and the royal family? It is a mystery...

In JS case many victims did report him and it was covered up. In the Rochdale grooming gangs, the girls were ignored, same with the Harrods owner.

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 13:04

Re: SHPOs

Some SHPOs have gone further and told men they have to stay away from women’s and also unisex toilets for multiple years. I have several examples of this - all male. I would like to know how many men currently have SHPO to stay away from women’s toilets and unisex toilets. I have found various orders but no central information. Does anyone know if this would be collated anywhere? How I can find this information out?

I would also like to know how many staff have been barred from teaching by setting up cameras in school toilets. I got into double figures and lost the list. All male. Be easier to get a definitive list. Don’t know who to contact about this either.

The Department for Education can’t give me any information as they don’t collate incidents in toilets. They have no idea from the FOI requests I have sent.

BackToLurk · Yesterday 13:30

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:54

Well done them for not speaking out or preventing JS from getting continued opportunities to abuse more victims.

And yes, why couldn't the victims have seen through the consistent portrayal of JS as a modern day saint from across the media, politics and the royal family? It is a mystery...

Oh behave. People (women) did speak out and were ignored or shut down JS was extremely litigious and leveraged his contacts on the police and other organisations. Of course you can’t always tell by looking at someone, but I don’t know what your motive is for denying that women (in particular) tend to have a bit of an instinct for dodgy men.

MrsOvertonsWindow · Yesterday 13:31

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 13:04

Re: SHPOs

Some SHPOs have gone further and told men they have to stay away from women’s and also unisex toilets for multiple years. I have several examples of this - all male. I would like to know how many men currently have SHPO to stay away from women’s toilets and unisex toilets. I have found various orders but no central information. Does anyone know if this would be collated anywhere? How I can find this information out?

I would also like to know how many staff have been barred from teaching by setting up cameras in school toilets. I got into double figures and lost the list. All male. Be easier to get a definitive list. Don’t know who to contact about this either.

The Department for Education can’t give me any information as they don’t collate incidents in toilets. They have no idea from the FOI requests I have sent.

To be fair to the DfE, and given their previous batshittery about ignoring safeguarding children in favour of enabling queer theory groups, I've limited patience with them.
But, data capture over the location of incidents is really complex. All schools should know where the vulnerable sites in the school buildings are. Where bullying, assaults, intimidation can more easily take place as that should inform their lunchtime / corridor supervision, siting of CCTV etc. Toilets will be included in this. But categorising different locations and reporting them as part of national data I think would be extremely complex.

Any way - don't mean to derail the thread - there's others doing a much better job of that 🙄

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 13:32

Additup · Yesterday 12:46

I knew someone personally who knew JS in professional capacity through his charitable work and met him a few times.

They told me JS was very openly sleazy around women in a really obvious and shocking way.

When all the revelations came out it can't have been a surprise to many I think. Even watching him on TV when much younger used to make my spider senses work overtime.

Local knowledge in Leeds as well.

Lovelyview · Yesterday 13:32

Helleofabore · Yesterday 12:56

I take it that this also mean that any other male person who persists in using a female single sex provision can receive one of these orders?

Well wouldn't that be interesting. I'd love Mr Weddell to get one.

Lovelyview · Yesterday 13:38

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:54

Well done them for not speaking out or preventing JS from getting continued opportunities to abuse more victims.

And yes, why couldn't the victims have seen through the consistent portrayal of JS as a modern day saint from across the media, politics and the royal family? It is a mystery...

I worked in PR in London in the 90s. The grapevine said Al Fayed sexually abused his staff. For anyone to do anything would need evidence, people willing to testify and women to be believed. Women went to the police and their complaints were dismissed. Don't blame the ones who had no power. Blame the ones who did have power and did nothing. Or who actively interfered on Al Fayad's behalf.

Wadsworthy · Yesterday 13:41

Ugh! Even from the photo, you can tell he just smells.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Yesterday 13:48

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:54

Well done them for not speaking out or preventing JS from getting continued opportunities to abuse more victims.

And yes, why couldn't the victims have seen through the consistent portrayal of JS as a modern day saint from across the media, politics and the royal family? It is a mystery...

You need only look at what happened to Johnny Rotten to see why people kept quiet.

Lovelyview · Yesterday 13:49

That's interesting. I was looking at the pictures of the young men in Middlesbrough who died going the wrong way on the A66 and wondering why a couple of them made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. Has anyone done any research into women's accuracy at picking out wrong uns from a series of photos? Having said that my husband and I took photos for a railcard recently and we both look like we've been picked up for shoplifting.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Yesterday 13:52

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 11:58

Evidence suggests women are better at identifying dark triad traits from faces.

Plus we learn to trust our instincts.

Facial expression, maybe, but not faces per se. This guy looks like he's a threat because even autistic me recognises that chronic anger facial expression. He's angry a lot of the time, and he's furious in that police mugshot that he's been arrested and someone is telling him "no".

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 14:24

"He said the order would "reduce Valentine's ability to further explore his ideology and gives police the opportunity to monitor his behaviour in the community to help reduce his risk of further offending".'

Hating women is an ideology now? 🤯

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 14:36

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 14:24

"He said the order would "reduce Valentine's ability to further explore his ideology and gives police the opportunity to monitor his behaviour in the community to help reduce his risk of further offending".'

Hating women is an ideology now? 🤯

Yes, if it's been organised into a belief system about how society should work.

oldtiredcyclist · Yesterday 14:41

Cheese55 · Yesterday 11:59

I agee but Saville? Polished?

I nearly spat my iced tea out reading this😂

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 15:15

MrsOvertonsWindow · Yesterday 13:31

To be fair to the DfE, and given their previous batshittery about ignoring safeguarding children in favour of enabling queer theory groups, I've limited patience with them.
But, data capture over the location of incidents is really complex. All schools should know where the vulnerable sites in the school buildings are. Where bullying, assaults, intimidation can more easily take place as that should inform their lunchtime / corridor supervision, siting of CCTV etc. Toilets will be included in this. But categorising different locations and reporting them as part of national data I think would be extremely complex.

Any way - don't mean to derail the thread - there's others doing a much better job of that 🙄

Yes, I agree it’s complex! Trying to get data is very difficult but there should be a national coordinated approach and database to improve future provision. The problem being schools don’t know what goes on in the toilet cubicle. They are one of the only places you can’t put cctv. Though that hasn’t stopped various measures like voice activated ‘help me’ or ‘stop it’ alarms and heat sensors trying to mitigate. They don’t appear to have data (still) on where sexual assaults happen in schools. Yet the estimates I have from various sources are bad (rapes within school buildings vary between 3 and 5 per school week in the UK) and of course Everyone’s Invited also mention toilets a lot - incidents that don’t seem to get reported.

Every safeguarding inquiry says we need better data collection. Yet nobody bothers about location specifics. The best information I have is from British Transport Police, but though they could give me information on toilets in stations, they didn't break down the sexual assaults in including rapes data in train carriages over the last 10 years. They listed victim by sex and perpetrator by gender.

To design-out crime you need to know the design and the crime. There really should be more researchers looking at this for toilets. We have learnt that the mixed sex, private accessible (disabled) toilets needed radar keys to prevent sex, drugs and vandalism yet standard unisex toilets have no such safeguards. And what do the EHRC say in their toilet example in a shopping centre? Consider retrofitting a private, mixed sex toilet for ‘distress’ and ‘safety’. As far as I can tell, no risk assessment was done on that either.

Let Lambeth and Hackney et al join up the dots. Where are women safe if everywhere is mixed sex?

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 15:24

Helleofabore · Yesterday 12:56

I take it that this also mean that any other male person who persists in using a female single sex provision can receive one of these orders?

Good point.

OP posts:
Gengha · Yesterday 15:26

Pleasantsort2 · Yesterday 13:01

Poor wee soul jist needs a befriender!😭

Absolutely. A woman who has signed the “not in our name” petition and claims “you will have to get through me” if anyone objects.