Lactation support conference in Ireland - the quiet part out loud

[ArabellaScott]

https://genspect.org/where-does-male-lactation-fit-in-breastfeeding-support-networks/

'This year’s program lists a lactation consultant called Jacob Engelsman speaking on “communicating inclusively: creating gender-affirming clinical spaces for families” and “lactation support for gender-diverse families”.'

'Jacob Engelsman is a Certified Lactation Consultant based in the US. He describes himself as an infant care specialist, speaker, and writer. He is the author of a recently published book, Lactation for the Rest of Us: A Guide for Queer and Trans Parents and Helpers, and specialises in inducing lactation in non-gestational parents (parents who haven’t given birth). “Lactation is for anyone” Jacob tells us in this podcast interview.
Engelsman’s interest and expertise is not limited to lactation for the purpose of feeding an infant. One of his previous presentations was “Inducing Lactation for Kinksters” and according to his CV he has been giving various talks including on lactation at Frolicon, an adult lifestyle and fetish convention held annually in Atlanta, Georgia with substantial programming around kink, BDSM, sexuality, polyamory, LGBTQ+ relationships and alternative sexual/family cultures.
He is not a nurse, midwife, doctor, or healthcare professional (nor does he claim to be). He is not a parent or someone with personal experience of breastfeeding. He got his certification five years ago and prior to that worked in the food service industry.'
...
'Why would a man want to lactate? In Engelsman’s own words:
“There are several reasons a person may choose to lactate regardless of whether they can gestate a child…a non-gestational parent might choose to induce lactation as a way to feel emotionally closer to the baby, assert their own feelings of parenthood, gender euphoria, or just for the unique experience of it.” (p.49)
Writing specifically about “cis” men, that is men who identify as men, he says:
“As to the question of why they would want to, it seems reasonable to believe that cis men want to lactate for the same reasons as anyone else. Which is to say, usually to feed and bond with their baby and to a lesser extent for curiosity, fun, or sexual gratification.” (p.152)'

That's not it, really. I'm just curious as to whether professional women would dissent with the atmosphere prevalent in the last decade. Even if their dissenting was by far the majority view in the room.
I guess we'll never know.

I lack the crystal ball to use in order to answer that. Sorry!

It's all archived to the back teeth, anyway..

who the heck is hiring a man who has never bloody breast fed to advise them on breast feeding?

i'll tell you one thing I know about breast feeding - I was a hell of a lot better at it the second time around. someone who has never done it is going to be fuck all use when it comes to advice

"who the heck is hiring a man who has never bloody breast fed to advise them on breast feeding?"

The same type of people who enabled porn soaked queer theorists to "advise" schools about pastoral care, sport, sex ed and the benefits of sex change for children.
The same type of people who enabled dodgy adults to insist that the words woman and all related accurate female language should be removed from medicine, maternity care, menopause and menstruation policies and care etc etc
The same type of people who insist that multiple sex crimes committed by men should be ascribed to women and that the police should harras women daring to raise concerns about extreme transactivism.

We're in this mess because people have been allowed to bully their way into influencing institutions using the cloak of the "sacred caste" with no criticism or challenge allowed - let alone the idea of exercising critical thinking or due diligence.

What a world.

When my son was in special care, i was struggling to express at home and called the unit, as they told us to.

I got the one male nurse on the unit. As soon as i explained what i needed advice with, i was pleased that his instant response was 'I'll go and get a woman'.

Kinder for my dignity and an acknowledgement that he didn't really know.

What a contrast.

This story was on the front page of the Irish Daily Mail on Saturday.

Images are from wicklowwomen4women on Twitter:
https://twitter-thread.com/t/2093600826312839338

Full-size images, which are easier to read:
https://ugc-assets.mumsnet.com/images/202608/BG0WIcinxKP4JxTUsbQvXV5ijLC2tEltirsQJw3V.jpg
https://ugc-assets.mumsnet.com/images/202608/aX8WoK9TTtljuwMGggBSPGmv2AQlXJGK0KEWsf8h.jpg

The HSE defends him?! What the ever loving fuck?

I'm sure there's a steady stream of MPs from Labour, Greens and Lib dems who would be keen defend men's rights explore their "curiosity, fun, or sexual gratification" by using babies in this way. Judging by so many of their previous protestations. 🙄

It’s always about enabling a male fetish. Gross.

Fortunate if the hotel pulled the plug, really (that article was published on 20th). That will have solved a lot of people's problem.

I wondered this, to be an IBCLC you need to catalogue hours and hours of breastfeeding support, and I’m unaware of any breastfeeding support organisations who will train peer supporters if they haven’t breastfed a baby for a minimum of six months. Or at least that was the case when I did my training.

That said, there are a few men who are actual breastfeeding experts, Dr Jack Newman is the only name I can think of, but I feel like there’s another I can’t remember, not sure if William Sears counts?

Jacob explains how he got in the hours doing 'support' by working as admin at a support centre. So even that sounds pretty iffy.

It makes a mockery of the IBCLC certification if you can tick the "clinical hours" box by doing adjacent admin. I hope that isn't true because if it is, that makes it an unreliable certification.

Or maybe/hopefully he's a fraud and doesn't actually have the IBCLC certificate

Every woman has the right to breastfeed and to be supported in her lactation. This is Ireland - how dare anybody deny a woman these rights, just because she happens to have a penis?

He's using breastfeeding as an excuse to smear and malign women, specifically mothers. Facts dont matters.

I suppose its possible its also in his interests to pretend that breastfeeding is so hard no.woman could possibly exclusively breastfeed. But my assumption is he deliberately chooses, with glee, to call women liars. For other reasons.

“Jacob explains how he got in the hours doing 'support' by working as admin at a support centre. So even that sounds pretty iffy.”

it’s absolutely not how it’s meant to work and he shouldn’t be putting the letters after his name.

with their baby is exclusively breasted.
And I was like, no, they're lying to you. They don't want to lose face because there's shame surrounding it.
So women lie?
I, and many women I knew, exclusively breastfed for up to 6 months. When a neighbour asked me to look after her baby for an evening, she had to show me how to make up and prep a bottle - I was completely clueless.

How does this specimen think the human race survived before we had formula and understood the importance of sterilisation?

Can you imagine a woman with no breastfeeding experience and no medical training giving such dud advice and being invited to talk at a breast feeding conference?

yes, this is the most puzzling aspect I think

I mean obviously his advice will be suspect at best. he's never breast fed!

Not in a million years.
But a man, yunno, well....

And blokes wonder why we get irritated about being sidelined and ignored.

Reposting this bit of the interview where he talks about his IBCLC cert (my bolding):

''I was a fancy wine and cheese guy at a grocery store, which I love was great, but I knew that it wasn't what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.
So I figured out what my ideal job would be,then figured out the word for that job. The word that I came up with was postpartum doula.
I did a doula training. I met some people. I googled Atlanta doulas,and then I had coffee with a dozen different people.
So I did a postpartum doula training. I made friends with some people.
I ended up doing a birth doula training and attended a birth. I realized that being a doula is not really what I wanted to do because that is more taking care of parents. It's more parent care and less infant care.
But Atlanta has this huge birth worker and lactation community, which is great,
and a lot of people were really supportive. So I got a job as the secretary at a clinic called Breastfeed Atlanta, where my entire job was schedule consultations, organize breast pump rentals and file insurance claims, and
after about six months, the owner was like, Jacob, you should just become an I-B-C-L-C.
You're really into the work, even if you decide you don't want to be a lactation consultant for the rest of your life, but it'll only ever look good on a resume that you were an I-B-C-L-C for a while, even if you let it lapse. No.
Yeah, it's never going to be a hindrance, and I didn't realize at the time,
but for most people, the hard part is getting your clinical hours.
I already worked at a clinic, so I was like, yeah, okay, that seems like a good idea''

'So I was pathway three. Of course, I wasn't already a medical professional, and I applied'

Pathway 3:

https://ibclc-commission.org/step-1-prepare-for-ibclc-certification/lactation-specific-clinical-experience/pathway-3-mentorship/

'Pathway 3 mentorship is a structured, defined relationship between an applicant and IBCLC(s) which must be preapproved'

Sounds to me like the owner of Breastfeed Atlanta was Jacob's 'mentor'.

https://breastfeedatlantallc.com/lactation-consult-atlanta-about-us

Of course, I wasn't already a medical professional, and I applied

How?

ETA - sorry read wasn't as was

The HSE pushes back by saying the "…lectures are in line with equality legislation and inclusion strategies"

And yet the liberal left wonder why the political right are gaining ground from centrists and we face the problem of genuine inclusivity risking being sidelined when state institutions accede to men demanding that their paraphilia gets centre stage in the name of inclusion.