'Pregnant people'

[StickySundew]

I know there are more important battles, but this pisses me off and we've learned that gender-centric language is used as a wedge.

Only women get pregnant. Don't try to erase the relevance of female sex. This doesn't happen to men - all the info my friend with prostate cancer gets refers to men with prostate cancer, not 'people with prostate cancer'. There'd be outrage and a lot of hurt if someone tried to set up support for 'people with prostate cancer'.

This time it was the Food Standards Agency, issuing a reminder about the groups most at risk from salmonella poisoning.

I just wanted to let off steam.

So that I have a bit more excuse, let's have an utterly pointless voodoo poll to see how many enablers and TRAs are hanging around.

But surely, if they are pregnant then that is irrefutable proof that they are women?

It used to be since the “dawn of time!” No one questioned it, it was fact!! But now…

Anyone can request a change of doctor or chaperone. It's in the Patients Charter.

I know this because I'm a survivor of childhood physical abuse who's had kids, so have often been examined by cis men.

I would personally prefer a trans woman to examine me over a cis guy, but as always would request someone else be present if one wasn't offered. I don't want any physical exam done without a witness.

Oh and using slurs to describe minorities isn't argument.

Trans people exist, albeit in very small numbers. They need healthcare.

You can get as an angry as you want, deny what you want. Fair enough, your life. Doesn't alter that they will keep being born, getting jobs, and dropping sprogs.

People who belong to minorities deserve a health service which welcomes them. We fought for that.

How do you know they're "cis" men? Do you ask them? What if Dr Upton wanted to examine you, how would you know he's trans? He looks just like a somewhat-balding man with long hair.

Are you suggesting that a pregnant 15 year old would not realise that the phrase 'pregnant women' applied to her (because that's what were talking about, inclusive communication)?

I think that's quite the stretch. I have never seen the phrase 'pregnant girls' ever used outside of this thread.

As a pp said, this (non) problem can be worked around by using phrasing like 'if you are pregnant...'

Presumably they could have been transmen, as "we can never tell".

@TransParentlyAnnoyed “dropping sprogs.”

NO woman would ever say that!!

The term "milk" has been used in the English language to describe milk-like plant juices and extracts for about 800 years, dating back to around 1200 CE. Historically, humans have consumed plant-based "milks," such as coconut and soy, for thousands of years. 1, 2, 3]

Centuries of History
The practice of extracting liquids from plants and nuts is an ancient tradition that spans many cultures. 1, 2]

• Coconut Milk: Used in cooking and drinks for over 5,000 years, primarily in Southeast Asia and India.
• Soy Milk: Documented in China as far back as the first century, where it was consumed as a broth or used to make tofu.
• Almond Milk: First mentioned in writing in a 13th-century Baghdadi cookbook and was a popular dairy substitute in medieval Europe. 1, 2, 3, 4]

I'm gonna explain this in really simple terms.

Trans men use male pronouns and very often pass as cis men. They don't think of themselves as cis guys - they are trans guys.

All their friends, decent family members and colleagues refer to them by their name and pronouns. Some won't even know they are trans.

They are happy in who they are and live perfectly normal, very full lives. Sometimes, they decide to have children.

And the NHS is fine with that. The biggest concern for HCPs is that trans guys trust them enough to access care, especially when they're pregnant. So they use inclusive language on healthcare messaging.

That's it. That's the whole thing.

Your inability to understand that most folk don't have an issue with trans people, and just want them to be okay, is your problem.

Yes, i thought it was transphobic to assume someone's gender, surely.

But perhaps the rules have changed. Its so difficult to keep up...

Trust is a really important thing in medical scenarios, as Transparently points out. When I see an NHS worker with a progress Pride lanyard my heart sinks, as to me this is a signal that they do not support single sex spaces / care.

I do not feel i can trust them and would not want to be intimately examine by them.

Transparently has provided an excellent example of why words and symbols matter and why women's experience matters. According to them, we should accept this verbal erasure because it makes some other people feel better, and if women feel bad that's just tough because it's 'inclusive'.

Some people are more equal than others, apparently.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed “Doesn't alter that they will keep being born,”

Who carries them for 9 months in a uterus?
Who gives birth to them?

I'm liking the laughable idea that Prostate Cancer UK are just as careful/inclusive with language. Sure, they offer support to transwomen and some NB people (I think we know which ones), as they should, but their little badge, the one you see on the lapel's of various football managers in particular is literally called 'Man Of Men'.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed “Trans men use male pronouns and very often pass as cis men.”

Men (and women)) don’t “pass” as anything. They are just men and women.

They can no longer be called or described as ‘milk’.

Legally the word ‘milk’ is exclusively for the mammary secretions of animals. Milk, butter and cheese apply only to animal products.

I agree. Transwoman ought to mean a woman who is 'trans' i.e. thinks she is a man. I suspect that this confusion has led many people to say that 'of course transwomen should be in women's lavatories, prisons etc' because the respondent thinks it is women being talked about. I also suspect that the (very little) publicity that has revealed that 'transwomen' are actually men has gone a long way towards the withdrawal of support for them being in actual women's spaces.

“Doesn't alter that they will keep being born”

I’m not too sure about that 🤔. With more and more children likely to be infertile through damage caused by certain so-called ‘life saving’ drugs and the semen producing people dying out through the use of X-sex hormones and surgery, where will these babies come from?

Replacing 'woman' with people is also a linguistic sleight of hand that makes language less universal and less understandable. Words refer to real objects (or ideas, I know) and directing them at an object to which they don't point is damaging linguistically as well as to women in particular in this case.
Transwomen are men. All pregnant 'people' are women - with no exception.
When I say baked beans I don't mean egg and chips.

Agree also - and then when it becomes even clearer that the overwhelming majority of men who call themselves TW do absolutely nothing in terms of surgery or taking hormones, but simply demand everyone calls them Helen and give them access to whatever space their manly feelz demand, then the support drops away even further. The blinkers are off now - and continue to come off.

I’ve slipped up before. I really have to think about it.

Trans women (or is it transwomen?) = Men
Trans-identified male (or is it man?) = Man

True, Sadly sexual maturity and the ability to become pregnant happens before full physical, psychological and emotional maturity. The fact remains that only females of the human species can become pregnant, which is the point I was making and how they identify is irrelevant.

This is such a good point about children becoming infertile.
“semen producing people “ 🤣

Thank you. I will also explain in very simple terms.

These women who call themselves trans "men" do so because they have projected their personal issues with "women" onto words that to everyone else simply mean sex.

When people like yourself demand this sexist language is treated as an actual truth, it hurts everyone, just as acconodating racist or ablist language hurts everyone.

That you deny this doesn't matter. It is still true. The moment you give headspace to the idea that a female person can be anything other than a woman or girl, you add a non-physical quality into being a "woman" or "girl" that reduces our possibilities from the full diversity of the female half of the soecies into whatever sexist ideas trans "men" and "women" believe should limit us.

And it is not decent to impose this sexism onto the general population. Not. At. All.

Sorry if this has already been said. This is primarily to be inclusive to TIFs and non-binaries, not to TIMs.

I know the principle is the same but I find it mildly less enraging to think of it that way.

My children were taught as far back as primary school that your intent and your impact can be wildly different things.

In an attempt to include the tiny minority of women who have a problem being referred to as such thus using "pregnant people" the word woman is wiped from the discussion about pregnancy and childbirth. You cannot have a useful discussion about abortion rights unless you define the people whom it affects - women. The Dobbs decision will have no impact whatsoever on my son's health - nor his decision on where to live. It may well have an impact on my daughters' health and pretending otherwise is just a lie - a lie that excludes women from the very thing that only affects them.

To say nothing of wiping the word "women" from the most dangerous yet incredible thing that we and only we can do with our bodies. every human who ever stood on this earth came from the body of a woman.