Brave reporter undergoes inhumane sex test for sports. Brace yourselves.

[singthing]

Here's a blow-by-blow first-person account of what it is like to have the new sports sex test that is being decried as invasive and dehumanising and (in a rather extravagant bending of the facts) a genital inspection etc.

After such a big build-up, prepare to be.... underwhelmed. But please do stop scrolling now if you don't want to read the distressing details:

"I open my mouth and feel the swab brushing the inside of my cheeks for about 20 seconds. The practitioner carefully places the sample in a small plastic bag and then pops it into a sealed envelope. I sign the back of it."

https://archive.ph/kITV9

Thanks for the apology.
As a general point, not speaking about you, what new posters with strong trans allegiances fail to realise is that women on here are fine tuned to new posters who rock up with an agenda. They often start seemingly so reasonable "I'm as GC as they come ... but...", and usually identify as mothers of 12, cake makers and domestic goddesses (I may be exaggerating here 😁).
As a thread progresses the mask starts to slip and claims of women's inability to understand, allegations of bigotry & unkindness & more recently a very odd obsession with claiming that women are somehow creepy for mentioning body parts or talking about children transitioning.

It soon becomes apparent that the poster is another transactivist solely here to educate women about our wrongthink. It happens time and time again and there's always the same pattern.

It's very refreshing to be proved wrong about this and to see a poster genuinely engaging in good faith. Some of us have been fighting to return women's sport to women and girls, to stop the undermining of child safeguarding and to reinforce the importance of women's rights to safety, privacy and dignity for many many years. So many organisations and individuals have been trashed by extreme transactivism and it's wearying watching the frantic attempts to stop these wrongs being put right.

Is this the poster you say you have given hope to? Because this is not in reference to the three instances you mention.

This is in response to your post “This is the second time someone has suggested that not holding gender critical views is the same as being a flat earther. And then other people keep telling me how open people are to challenge in this definitely-not-a-bubble”

This poster seems to be agreeing that somehow on a publicly accessible forum with many different opinions, that no one else has come in to support you means somehow this the bubble you wish it to be.

If you actually had been challenged in the past on your view, I would expect that you would have more than emotionally reasoned fallacies in mind to support your arguments.

I think your swivel to sexualised innuendo doesn’t really seem to be answering the question and is more of a distraction to shame some other posters.

I guess I’m more worried about men calling women like us pigs who should be gassed than what the terrible women on MN say 🤷‍♀️

If you believe biological sex doesn’t exist you are equivalent to a flat earther.

Because genital inspections is well known trope employed endlessly by trans rights activists who seem to think that it's what gender critical women will demand to ensure same sex provisions aren't used by opposite sex people. It's been doing the round for years, I couldn't even guess the number of times I've seen it deployed to try and portray gender critical women as perverts.

Gender critical women have never demanded genital inspections and there is a bit of suspicion that some of those who go on about it are having some sort of fantasy and may even be disappointed at the lack of drama involved in a cheek swab.

Acknowledging that I don't speak for everyone, or even anyone other than myself, everyone here is fully familiar with the TRA obsession (even in the negative) with the idea that genital examinations are "a thing", under consideration, or requested or required.

It's way beyond a trope, in TRA circles, that all GC people allegedly want "genital examinations" at toilet doors. We're bored with it, and sometimes we play the ball back at you.

This.

Sometimes the moderation is really odd on this website. Not sure why we're not allowed to say that these are adults we're dealing with, and adults understand that they can't have their own way in competitive sport. They're not children.

Thank you. Definitely not a domestic goddess or a cake maker! I was drawn to this thread specifically rather than any of the other gender critical threads because I have a genuine interest in women’s sports (as I say, I compete in a strength sport where performance expectations across male and female, weight and ages classes are of course very different). I want my sport and all sport to be fair for women, but I also don’t want to exclude trans or intersex people (and there ARE quite a few trans people in lifting communities)…. And that’s because I love my sport! I think everyone should get to do it!

I honestly don’t know what the answer is, but I don’t think it’s as straightforward as ‘there’s male and female, that’s it, no variance or discussion to be had’.

I have seen male athletes write about looking forward to having their genitals checked. I am sure others have too.

Mentioning it is for a reason, it is pointing out that some male people have written about looking forward to it, not that the posters mentioning those male people are the issue.

I have personally overheard a group discussion of male people with transgender identities discuss this. One declared that when a female gym manager questioned their sex, he dropped his gym gear and showed her his groin.

Another of the group discussed with a very young girl how he was just like her and her mum and had ‘female breasts’.

I would suggest anyone calling out female people’s discussion about these discussions we hear in real life or see on social media is calling out the wrong people’s inappropriate behaviour. Telling women they are in the wrong for discussing the behaviour of male people is an act of misogyny, supporting those male people, in my opinion.

It is that straightforward. The rest is just special pleading for men which disadvantages women.

It's 'old', 2019, but the IAAF said:

"We have seen in a decade and more of research that approximately 7.1 in every 1000 elite female athletes in our sport are DSD athletes with very high testosterone levels in the male range. The majority of those athletes compete in the restricted events covered by the regulations. This frequency of DSD individuals in the elite athlete population is around 140 times higher than you will find in the general female population, and their presence on the podium is much more frequent even than this."

https://worldathletics.org/news/press-release/questions-answers-iaaf-female-eligibility-reg

ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY TIMES the general population.

Well I didn’t see that so I couldn’t call it out. But I DID read someone insinuating on here that maybe trans people WANT their genitals checked, and I do think just calling trans people fetishists or whatever IS transphobia.

Thank you to the people explaining the trope. I’m aware people point out that it would be very difficult to police toilets without checking gentials (we’re not doing a genetic test on everyone using a loo, right!) but I still think the post I read was deliberately creepy / implying people would be disappointed for a fetish reason rather than the reason that it didn’t back up their worst-case-scenario-argument, and I don’t think that’s acceptable really.

Yep, it's that straightforward.

For people who still struggle with this concept then the answer is trans categories where the oh so complicated and nuanced issue of sex v gender can be battled out on the mat, court, track or wherever, without cheating women out of medals or having to show anyone your genitals.

Ok. I’ve explained why I disagree with you on that.

I think perhaps the majority of us recognised it, as I did, as being a riff on one of the phrases that is trotted out whenever anyone suggests maybe men ought not to do this or that. The reply comes back like clockwork from the TRA side of things to the effect that we obviously expect genital checks to be made, eg at the doors of public lavatories. (On the whole, I suspect nobody here is dimwitted enough to expect any such thing!) It has become such a clichéd response that making fun of it is also commonplace, and I suspect that many of the people here simply don't notice it any more. I didn't, I admit.

Would you also feel that the men banging on about the expectation are reprehensible and thoroughly deserve to have the, ahem, urine extracted for it? I have definitely had the impression now and again that the person saying it was looking forward to the experience, let's say; some people apparently regard a strip-search as sexy, after all. Takes all sorts.

@Deadlifter* *How about reading some of the many links that have been posted, rather than hanging around taking swipes at individual posters.

I encourage you to read about the things Canadian lifter Archer said about April Hutchinson and how April was treated after raising concerns about the fairness of the competition.

Even Harper, the male researcher with a transgender is identity has admitted that no male people should be competing in female weightlifting.

Male people are not being ‘excluded’ from sports. They are only excluded from female sports categories.

To keep saying they are being excluded is misinformation.

Male people who have or do produce testosterone and which their body processes are not EXCLUDED from sport. They are simply expected to compete in their sex category based on their sexed body formation.

thank you!! @Lougle I shall add that to the archive thread!!

Obviosuly if a man made anyone uncomfortable during eg a strip search or medical exam or anything, then I would think that was reprehensible. I don’t think that’s specific to any debate around the trans community or intersex athletes.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to ask HOW people would be identified using the right / wrong loos etc (I’ll say right now - I’m not going to be convinced by we can ALWAYS tell arguments! I know I cannot always tell).

Sorry. People keep saying EXPLAIN THAT or ANSWER THIS or WHAT ABOUT THIS SCENARIO to me. I can’t follow all your instructions at once I’m afraid. And please don’t assume what I have or haven’t read - just because someone disagrees with you personally, they aren’t necessarily poorly read or uninformed. People keep calling me arrogant, and others keep telling me I’m just uniformed or a flat earther. I am doing my best because I wanted a discussion, but it is hard for one person to have a meaningful discussion with about ten of you at once.

The only reason it is in the debate at all is the gloating way it gets thrown at women, I have rather tended to think in the hope of embarrassing them. Suggesting by implication that any woman who wants to keep men out of women's single sex spaces is a pervert who wants genital searches to happen is not exactly neutral, is it.

So women take the piss out of the idea. and why not? It's been put into the arena, and not by women.

I don’t particularly feel that you really understand what you’re talking about, so…

Indeed.

Ok!