Rachel Saunders (trans-identifying man) compares GC beliefs to eugenics.

[Whatchamacallitt]

A new one for TRAs - sex realist views are like eugenics!

Gosh they're getting desperate these days aren't they? The more society returns to common sense, the wilder their claims of persecution become.

If you don't know who this one is, he's the 'academic' who played on a university hockey team with young women and then threatened to sue when rules were rightfully changed to exclude abusive men like him.

Have transgender people changed their sex?

Do trans women have the same biological makeup after years of hormone replacement therapy?

Can you just answer my question?

I basically answered it with mine. Because as someone with scientific knowledge you won’t like the answer.

Try me.

@MashaPav Do you nag people to use medical terminology in all contexts or just this one? Trans-identifying male is a term that many people use. It’s accurate and it’s very obvious what it means. The medical community would be better off using it themselves rather than transwoman, which confuses a lot of people. I won’t be changing my terminology just to suit you.

Terminology is just terminology and has its fashions like anything else. Even medical terminology.

A male person is still a male person after decades of supplementing estrogen.

I've said for years that gender ideology and the transition of autistic children (1/3 or 33% of all Tavistock patients vs 4% of the general population) is a eugenics programme.
All the gender ideological material that targets autistic kids and adolescents and their support groups and parents has evolved from transition will cure your asd (as seen prominently displayed in buzzing greens ted talk amount other places) to asd is a part of being trans to the current model of all asd people are trans we just need to accept it and let our eggs crack🤬
Over the years that I've been pointing out the harms of gender ideology I've come to understand that everything that gender idealogs accuse others of doing is really a massive case of DARVO as these are the things that the GI are doing, whether thats conversion therapy, eugenics, homophobic parents transitioning the gay away or the targeting of vulnerable children and the use of false suicide stats.
They are following the abusers playbook and we need to remember that they are the most dangerous when we leave

They are following the abusers playbook and we need to remember that they are the most dangerous when we leave

This is so very true and has been predicted on this board for years. The most recent wave of desperate, vitriolic TRA footstamping is likely to further escalate as they get more frustrated.

The 'correct' term is men who are pretending to be women.

I'm happy to use that. Shall we get a consensus?

We could bend a little and say a male person after decades of supplementing estrogen has changed into a male person with a self-induced endocrine disorder. Would that do, do we think?

They are still men, regardless of cross sex hormones (and cosmetic surgery, if they have it).

Trans identifying males is tge correct medical language as they are males who have a trans identity.
Transwomen is a misnomer and "trans women" is an outright lies as it implies that they are a subsect of women (ie biologically female) when they are a subsect of men (ie biologically male).
The unscientific activist language that you are falsely claiming is medically and scientifically correct is nothing more than an attempt to confuse the general public who have come to understand that when activists talk about transwomen they are talking about men and even the law recognises that men can never be any kind of woman

I hear you.

It is a whole lot of extra words though, that are unnecessary.

As was demonstrated by a poll carried out by MBM -

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2023/08/07/clarity-matters-how-placating-lobbyists-obscures-public-understanding-of-sex-and-gender/

Language does indeed matter.

Dear old Rachel given up suing England hockey then

Rachel knows Rachel is a man and wouldn't have a cats chance in hell of winning

No confusion here.
We on this board have known that activist have been forcing their illogical and inaccurate language on medical bodies for years hence nonsense like people with a cervix or birthing person instead of women and mothers.
Men who poison their bodies with cross sex hormones will suffer extremely serious medical complications the are however and always will remain men and male.
Hope that helps

As women? No they don't, because they aren't.

Wrong.
Every cell in their bodies remains male ie XY chromosomes.
Their skeletons remain male
Their heart, lungs, cardiovascular system, bladder size and reproductive system remains male.
The connective tissue in their brains remain male.
In short they are and always will remain men/males regardless of what extraneous cross sex hormones that they take. If a man who has gone through puberty and not had himself castrated stops taking cross sex hormones and puberty blockers his body will start making his male hormones again it will never produce female hormones in female ranges because he is not female
Hope that helps

'Spiel'.

So as long as we use your preferred words you agree that transgender ideology is leading to the sterilisation of children ? But you would rather focus on the precise words? Not a nice look

Masha may not be around still to read this, but I'd like to point out that there is a practical reason for using phrases like 'trans IDing man' or 'transIDing woman' - it's obvious that people are not at all clear what 'transwoman/ trans woman' or transman/ trans man' actually mean.

It's apparent that some people focus on the element 'woman' and so think that a trans woman is a biological female who IDs as/presents as a man... because they are a 'trans' woman.
There's a certain logic to that, isn't there?

So why not let trans women use the women's toilets? after all, they are biological females who present as 'trans', right?

And trans men need to be aware of issues like prostate cancer because they are men, right? Men who are 'trans', so although they present as women, maybe have had hormone treatment and surgery, it's important that trans men are included in men's health messaging...

You see the pickle people can get into with the terms 'trans woman' and 'trans man', Masha?

The use of 'trans-identifying' followed by the biological sex of the person is much clearer: it asserts their transgender ID, but clarifies the sex they were born into, and which they will always retain, no matter how much hormones they take or surgery they have.

It's not only less confusing linguistically, but it also simplifies the operation of EA2010, which, as the UKSC confirmed [note: confirmed the existing law, it didn't change the law]operates on the basis of biological sex.

A small number of facilities are separated on the basis of sex - not gender, gender ID, transgender ID or anything else, just sex as in biological sex.

It's much easier to understand which facilities transwomen should use if they are referred to as 'trans identifying men', so there is no confusion about which EA2010 category they belong to - they are, in the first place, men, however they identify, and therefore should use facilities designated for men.

The terms 'transwomen' and 'transmen' will continue to be used as a kind of shorthand, but when it is necessary to be clear and accurate e.g. in the application of the law, health and safety protocols, workplace regulations etc etc, they are misleading and unhelpful.

Do trans-identifying men switch from producing sperm to producing eggs after years of taking synthetic hormones? Because that is what would be required for them to change sex

The chromosomes that determine sex are present from conception and remain present in every cell of the body (except red blood cells and platelets) until death. The complex cascade of events needed to activate human sexual reproduction begins in the womb: baby girls are born with a lifetime supply of eggs

Human beings are not Mr Potato Head. You cannot swap bits in and out to make Mr Potato Head into Mrs Potato Head