Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 5

[fanOfBen]

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549488-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-4

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.
I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Correct me if i am wrong but i thought the tribunal complaint had been lodged during the appeal review process.

if so it would be an absolute must requirement to pass it through legals. Which is not the same as as being “leaned on”

Hi Tinkerbell

I don’t believe in fairies 🧚🏼‍♂️, I don’t believe in fairies, 🧚‍♀️ I just don’t believe in fairies. 🧚

(Fingers crossed it works!)

My god. So this is from the comments, apparently made by Tempest’s wife who is also a Defra employee, left on Nick Wallis’s “Tempest in Leeds” Genderblog post:

”An LGBTQ network lanyard is in no way a threat to anyone. A SEEN pass says ‘we see and hate you and we will work as hard as possible to make you unwelcome in the workplace and as you attempt to live you life’. If transgender people didn’t exist you would have nothing to be upset about so your existence and decision to be loud and obnoxious is to try to erase, harm or outright exterminate transgender people. To force them to commit suicide or have to lie everyday about who they really are to make you comfortable.”

This is genuinely one of the most batshit statements I’ve ever read. Imagine believing something so utterly unhinged about your colleagues!

Interesting. I think her questioning is showing that he did the minimum possible. I would love to know his grade and salary range, and pension. More tax payer money on poor quality. I'm not sure Andy Burham will do better than anyone else in dealing with this but god has he got good examples to start with.

TBF, that was one anonymous poster's claim, I don't know if it's been backed up.

She's as unhinged as he is. 🤯
Someone else who needs to go on top of the list when it comes to compulsory redundancy.

Oops cross post, she might not be his wife, but she's still as unhinged as he is. That's a classic drama llama post, suicide blah, blah, erasure blah, blah.

If I was working there I'd just want the likes of Samantha to use the bloody gents and stay out of things he has no right or need to be involved in.

As long as he did his work and didn't palm it off on others to do I wouldn't give a shiny shit what he was wearing, what he was called, what his political views are or what he was having for tea.

I would just expect him to do his job and leave me in peace to do mine.

I dont agree. June 2023, so max 3 years ago. I have been out of education now for nearly 2 years,. If you asked me about free school meal policy or 6th form funding, which is very complex, I might now not be able to tell you the precise document and page numbers. But if you directed me to page 43 and asked me to read and comment, my memory of what I decided and why would come flooding back. It does for most people if you have put the effort in.

Yes, anyone can claim to be anyone. I wouldn't put too much stock in comments-section nonsense.

I don’t know why we’re blaming Tink’s wife - he’s probably using her alias for a bit of causal hate crime.

If this is indeed her she is a civil servant and should be reported.

Just in case magical thinking does work - fairies don’t exist, they’re just tiny men in dresses 👗 🧚🏼‍♂️

@socialdilemmawhattodo I would be seriously unimpressed if someone senior spent more than the minimum time on this. They have other work to do and while they needed to check what had happened they shouldnt have done more than that.

This is very much how the RSOH do feel though. It's not an outlier, it is them. I've seen the same sentiments so often in online communities and even in real life. There are people I know who are otherwise good people who on this topic alone are absolute zealots, always prodding to see if there's a hint of TERFERY around they can denounce.

David Hallam's witness statement now on TT Substack and on X.

Oo thanks baker

And possibly if he'd done a proper job he might have realised that. This tribunal: total batshittery vs incompetence. What a country we are living in. Sack the fucking lot!

Is incompetence worse than batshittery? It's the million dollar question.

So i would have expected DH in a full review of the process to have realised that and asked for or seen a copy. As surely following additional legal advice would be an important aspect in a legal process. He was so skimpy in what he did.

What ? No, it was a draft he had to review the actual issued decision. Besides which it is such a red herring.

the judge can only concern himself with, if due process was followed. HH and you, or anyone else for that matter cannot require anything further than that.

He certainly didn't avail himself of the tenets of trans ideology in the way you imagine she ( or her client) would have liked. But that is not his job.

His witness statement reads just like him. All four-and-a-bit concise pages of it. No grandstanding.

Drafts are just that and quite often there can be multiple drafts as you reflect on what you have written. First drafts in particular can be a brain dump.

What would a 'proper job' have looked like to you in this instance?

David Hallam's Witness statement - ususal spot

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

And direct link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J2dkF01TurVqfNfPxmdD0gqDMjBaW2zu/view?usp=drive_link

For me, the truth is that I find it so damn offensive and disrespectful when a man claims to be a woman - for a start. I have no issue when a man presents himself in feminine attire ( as long as it is not overtly sexualised) as long as he knows he remains male. Men/male people are not women.

Have you seen the offense that many black people take when a white person tries to present themselves as black? And skin colour is simply not as foundational and deeply rooted as 'sex'.

I am a woman, and have lived as a girl......the female experience is unique to female people; and women and girls have dignity and integrity in their sex - and they have established protections on account of this.

And that is before we begin to talk about the wilful breaches of boundaries; the totalitarian nature of trans ieology; the way that the Labour party treated women who would not go along with this offensive rubbish; the way that women have been expected just to suck it up.......

Just for starters.

We are all either male or female, and in many circumstances that matters. Nobody is ' trans' in any way other through self elected 'identity' - which itself is just a post modernist construction.

I also take major issue with the construction of the 'Trans Child'. To my mind that is abusive and irresponsible and I want it nowhere near my grandchildren. I'm an ex teacher and counsellor. 'Transgender' didn't even exist 15 years ago. Nobody had heard of it.

DH’s witness statement is clear. He clearly followed a straightforward process and came to a conclusion.

I note that ST was asking for legal advice to DEFRA/RPA to be disclosed - has ST never heard of legal privilege?