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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Yesterday 10:22

Forgive the AI driven first pass analysis but it's a big document. Over all - could be way worse, and with some amendments, which I am sure the lords are looking into, could be tightened up to a degree where it's fine.

Also - a two edged sword about affirming,which I will come to in a second post.

Draft Conversion Practices Bill (2026) – gender‑critical concerns
Introduction
The UK Government’s Conversion Practices Bill (CP 1604) aims to create criminal offences and civil protection orders for “abusive conversion practices.” These practices are defined broadly as conduct intended to change or suppress a person’s sexual orientation or transgender identity. The Bill covers activities performed in England and Wales and also contains provisions that criminalise encouragement or assistance of such conduct abroad. A separate schedule creates conversion practice protection orders that allow courts to impose prohibitions and requirements to protect individuals. The following analysis identifies problematic sections from a gender‑critical perspective—that is, a view holding that sex is immutable and that helping a person reconcile with their biological sex can be beneficial. It notes where the Bill may chill legitimate therapeutic exploration of gender distress and suggests possible amendments to protect open‑ended, holistic therapy.

Key problem areas

1. Definition of “conversion practice” is broad and catches legitimate therapy
Quote:
‘Conversion practice’ means … any conduct … with the intention of— (a) causing the individual— (i) to have or not to have, (ii) to believe that they have or do not have, a sexual orientation or a particular sexual orientation; or (b) causing the individual— (i) to have or not to have, (ii) to believe that they have or do not have, a transgender identity or a particular transgender identity”.
The Bill defines conversion practices as any conduct intended to change, suppress or affirm sexual orientation or transgender identity. The phrase “to have or not to have” a transgender identity is so broad that it covers talk therapy that encourages acceptance of one’s sex or discourages identifying as transgender. A counsellor exploring whether a client’s sense of dysphoria stems from trauma, autism or homophobia could be seen as intending to make them “not have” a transgender identity and would therefore satisfy the definitional threshold. This wide net risks criminalising or chilling holistic, exploratory therapy that is not abusive. Gender‑critical advocates argue that some people resolve gender distress through therapy that helps them become comfortable with their sex, and that the state should not outlaw that work.
Potential amendment: Narrow the definition so that only coercive or abusive attempts to change orientation or identity are covered. A possible wording could be “any conduct that uses coercion, threats or manipulation to cause the individual to change their sexual orientation or to adopt or renounce a transgender identity.” Alternatively, add an explicit exemption for “respectful, exploratory talk therapy that supports individuals in understanding and accepting their biological sex” or clarifying that open‑ended therapy does not fall under the definition.

2. Health care exception is narrow and may pressure therapists to affirm
Quote:
Conduct … carried out in the course of providing health care services to the individual concerned, is not a conversion practice unless the person acts in a way that falls far below the standards reasonably expected of a person in their position”.
Section 1(3) excludes health care services from the definition of conversion practices, but only if the practitioner’s conduct does not fall “far below” expected standards. Because most professional bodies currently endorse affirmation of a stated transgender identity, therapists who do not immediately affirm might be accused of acting below professional standards. This could deter clinicians from offering a “watchful waiting” approach or exploring alternative explanations for dysphoria, for fear of later prosecution or professional misconduct allegations. From a gender‑critical viewpoint, such an exclusion effectively enforces an affirmation‑only model, blocking access to therapies that help clients reconcile with their sex.
Potential amendment: Provide a clear statutory assurance that respectful, exploratory counselling and gender‑distresstherapy is not a conversion practice. This could be achieved by adding a clause such as “nothing in this Act shall prohibit non‑coercive health care services that assist an individual in understanding or accepting their biological sex.” Professional standards should be updated to recognise both affirmative and exploratory therapies as legitimate options.

3. “Abusive” factors include emotional pressure, creating a low threshold for criminality
Quote:
In determining whether conduct amounts to an abusive conversion practice, courts must consider “whether it involves … violent or threatening words or behaviour; … controlling or coercive words or behaviour; … use of economic pressure; … use of psychological or emotional pressure”.

The Bill defines an abusive conversion practice by reference to “all the circumstances” and specifically lists “psychological or emotional pressure” as a factor. Terms like “emotional pressure” are vague and could capture supportive but challenging conversations. For example, a parent urging a child to delay medical transition and consider other life stresses could be portrayed as applying emotional pressure. Because abuse is assessed case by case, there is a risk that a court may interpret any non‑affirmative guidance as abusive, particularly if the individual later reports distress. This raises concerns about free speech and parental rights: those advocating a gender‑critical view fear being labelled abusers for encouraging acceptance of sex.

Potential amendment: Clarify that the listed factors only constitute abuse when they are coercive or threatening and that normal parental guidance or therapeutic questioning is not abusive. The Bill could specify that psychological or emotional pressure refers to manipulative techniques intended to shame or coerce, rather than honest discussion or advice. Including examples in statutory guidance could help courts differentiate between abusive conduct and legitimate conversation.

4. Broad definition of “transgender identity” extends the scope
Quote:
The circumstances in which a person has a transgender identity include when “the individual is undergoing, is proposing to undergo or has undergone a process of gender reassignment;the individual is transsexual;the individual identifies as neither male nor female or as not solely male or female”.

By listing a wide range of circumstances—people proposing to undergo gender reassignment, those identifying as non‑binary and those who simply identify as not solely male or female—the Bill applies to anyone who expresses any form of gender non‑conformity. As a result, attempts to encourage someone to accept a binary sex or to challenge non‑binary identification could fall under the definition of conversion practice. Gender‑critical advocates argue that equating counselling someone to accept their sex with abusive practices designed to suppress homosexuality conflates two very different phenomena. They worry that the Bill will cement self‑defined gender identities into law and close down debate.

Potential amendment: Restrict the definition to people who have formally been diagnosed with gender dysphoria or are receiving medical treatment, and exclude informal or early exploratory identification. Alternatively, make clear that counselling someone who is questioning their identity is not a conversion practice unless coercive tactics are used.

5. Offence of performing an abusive conversion practice – harm threshold
Quote:
A person commits an offence if the person carries out an abusive conversion practice on an individual which causes— (a) serious harm to the individual’s physical or mental health, or (b) serious alarm or distress to the individual which has a substantial adverse effect on their usual day‑to‑day activities”.

This section requires that the abusive practice causes serious harm or serious distress. However, individuals experiencing gender dysphoria often find therapy challenging; exploring painful emotions can temporarily increase distress. Those providing holistic therapy might unintentionally trigger distress, potentially creating liability if the client claims the session “adversely affected” their daily life. Because there is no intent requirement beyond the initial intention to affect identity (see the broad definition above), a therapist could be convicted even if they aimed to help and did not intend harm.

Potential amendment: Introduce an intent or recklessness element—requiring proof that the practitioner intended to cause harm or was reckless as to harm. Clarify that therapeutic distress is not sufficient; the harm must be due to abusive methods (e.g., threats, humiliation). This would protect clinicians who act in good faith within ethical practice.

6. Criminalising encouragement or assistance of conversion practices abroad
Quote:
A United Kingdom person commits an offence if the person carries out conduct in England and Wales that is capable of encouraging or assisting the carrying out by another person, outside England and Wales, of an abusive conversion practice on a United Kingdom individual …”.

Section 3 criminalises encouraging or assisting someone abroad to carry out an abusive conversion practice on a UK individual. From a gender‑critical perspective, this may deter parents from arranging counselling with practitioners overseas who use exploratory therapy models not available in the UK. It could also make charities or support groups liable if they provide resources pointing to overseas clinicians whose approaches are deemed non‑affirmative. Because the offence does not require that a conversion practice actually occurs, any reference to foreign services might be construed as assistance.
Potential amendment: Specify that the offence only applies to encouraging or assisting conversion practices that meet the definition of abusive under section 1 and that involve coercive or exploitative elements. Exempt non‑coercive referrals or information sharing aimed at accessing open‑ended therapy that helps individuals explore their feelings about gender. Additionally, require proof that the person knew the practice would be abusive rather than simply “foreseeable.”

7. Conversion practice protection orders – scope and powers
Quote:
Under the schedule, courts may make a conversion practice protection order “for the purposes of— (a) protecting an individual against abusive conversion practices … that are likely to cause serious harm … or serious alarm or distress; (b) protecting the victim of an offence under section 2 or 3 …”. The order may include “prohibitions, restrictions or requirements” and these may “relate to conduct outside England and Wales”.

Conversion practice protection orders grant courts broad powers to impose restrictions and requirements on individuals. Orders can include conditions affecting behaviour within and outside England and Wales. Applications can be made not only by the individual but also by police, local authorities or any other person with the court’s permission. Moreover, orders can be made without notice if the court thinks it is “just and convenient,” based on assessments of risk and possible deterrence of applications.

From a gender‑critical perspective, these orders could be used to restrict parents, family members or therapists from discussing biological sex with someone who has expressed a transgender identity. Because the orders can cover conduct outside England and Wales, they could prevent parents from seeking second opinions or therapy abroad. The ability for third parties to apply, and for courts to act without notice, raises due‑process concerns and the potential for misuse by activists or hostile relatives.

Potential amendment: Tighten the criteria for issuing protection orders so that they are reserved for genuinely abusive situations involving coercion or threats. Require that an order may only be made when there is credible evidence of planned or ongoing abuse, and limit the ability of third parties to initiate applications without the consent of the individual or their guardian. Include safeguards to ensure that parents and therapists offering supportive guidance are not subject to orders.

8. Offence of breaching an order and corporate liability
Quote:
If a person “without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with” a conversion practice protection order, they commit an offence punishable by imprisonment. Separately, if a body corporate commits an offence under the Bill and a “relevant officer” participated or failed to prevent it, that officer also commits the offence.

Breaching a protection order, even unintentionally, is a criminal offence carrying up to two years’ imprisonment. Coupled with the broad scope of orders, this creates a strong disincentive for parents, carers or therapists to engage in any conversation that might be construed as attempting to change a gender identity. The Bill also extends liability to corporate bodies and their officers, so organisations providing counselling or pastoral care could face prosecution if any staff member is judged to have performed an abusive conversion practice. From a gender‑critical view, this may cause charities, religious groups and therapy providers to avoid offering support to people seeking help to reconcile with their sex for fear of criminal liability.

Potential amendment: Limit criminal liability for breaching an order to wilful and knowing breaches, and provide clear guidance on what behaviours constitute non‑compliance. For corporate liability, require proof that management authorised or knowingly tolerated abusive practices rather than relying on failure to prevent. This would reduce the risk of over‑cautious self‑censorship by institutions.

Conclusion
The Conversion Practices Bill intends to protect individuals from genuinely abusive practices aimed at forcing them to change their sexual orientation or transgender identity. However, several provisions are problematic from a gender‑critical perspective. The definition of “conversion practice” is so wide that it risks capturing respectful, exploratory therapy designed to help individuals become comfortable with their biological sex. Factors such as “psychological or emotional pressure” are subjective and may be used to criminalise normal parental guidance or counselling. The health care exception is narrow and may compel therapists to follow an affirmation‑only model. Protection orders and overseas assistance offences further expand potential liability.
To ensure that the Bill truly targets abusive practices without stifling legitimate therapy and parental support, amendments should clarify that non‑coercive, exploratory counselling is permitted; tighten definitions; and add intent requirements. Statutory guidance could help distinguish between coercive conversion attempts and holistic therapy that supports individuals in processing gender distress. Without such changes, there is a risk that the Bill will undermine access to the very care that some individuals need to reconcile with their sex and live comfortably in their bodies.

OP posts:
theilltemperedamateur · Yesterday 10:28

So, if I know that a child is being given gender affirming medical treatment, can I apply for a conversion practice protective order, on the grounds that the treatment will cause actual physical harm, and will have the effect of causing the victim to believe that their sexual orientation has changed?

(The victim's consent is immaterial: you cannot consent to ABH/GBH.)

This could be useful for parents.

Or, how about parents who trans their three-year olds? Coercive control, surely, given that children do not have a well-established sense of the permanence of their sex until the age of six or seven.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Yesterday 10:34

theilltemperedamateur · Yesterday 10:28

So, if I know that a child is being given gender affirming medical treatment, can I apply for a conversion practice protective order, on the grounds that the treatment will cause actual physical harm, and will have the effect of causing the victim to believe that their sexual orientation has changed?

(The victim's consent is immaterial: you cannot consent to ABH/GBH.)

This could be useful for parents.

Or, how about parents who trans their three-year olds? Coercive control, surely, given that children do not have a well-established sense of the permanence of their sex until the age of six or seven.

Ah yes - this is the two edged word and it is very real I think.

It does not just say conversion practice is trying to make someone stop believing they are trans.

It also says it includes conduct intended to make someone believe that they do have a transgender identity.

So if a therapist, teacher, youth worker, activist, parent or whoever is pushing a vulnerable, distressed or confused young person towards the conclusion “you are trans”, that seems to fall within the same basic definition as pushing them towards “you are not trans”.

for it to become a criminal offence, the Bill also needs abusive conduct and serious harm or serious distress. So not mean every kind or supportive conversation is illegal.

But it does mean affirmation is not some magic safe category.

A therapist saying:

“Your distress is real. Let’s talk about it properly. Let’s look at your body, puberty, sexuality, autism, anxiety, trauma, social pressures, family stuff, everything.”
is doing therapy.

A therapist saying:

“This means you are trans. Your body is wrong. You need to accept your true gender.”

is not neutral. That is steering.

And if we are calling steering someone away from a trans identity conversion therapy, then I do not see how steering someone towards a trans identity magically is not.

This is especially important with children and vulnerable young people. They need proper, open-ended, whole-person therapy. Not ideological confirmation. Not someone else’s certainty placed on top of their distress.

A therapist can affirm the person’s dignity. They can affirm that the distress is real. They can affirm that it is OK not to know.

But they should be very careful about affirming the conclusion.

“You are trans” is not just kindness. It is a direction.

So if this Bill is passed as drafted, gender clinics and therapists should not be able to hide behind “affirmation good, exploration bad”. The wording does not say that. It cuts both ways.

I think this is quite a big thing that is going to cause all sorts of beef, probably for the better with regard to gender confused kids who generally just need time.

OP posts:
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 10:43

Thanks for the AI summary, which is a helpful starting point.

My first thoughts, before I had even finished reading the summary is:

a) in a one-to-one therapy situation, how is a therapist supposed to protect her/himself against accusations of "conversion practices" if the session is confidential? Accusations can come from the client and/or the client's family; and

b) how us the patient/ client supposed to protect her/himself against conversion techniques if (1) the client doesn't recognize the techniques as conversion and/or (2) they can't claim that it happened because it's all confidential and one word against another? I imagine the simplest remedy is just to stop the sessions and find a new therapist.

respectful, exploratory therapy

Who decides the definition of this? E.g. what if a client wants to be affirmed as trans and doesn't want anything else? Can they say the therapist was not respectful if they don't?

there is a risk that the Bill will undermine access to the very care that some individuals need to reconcile with their sex and live comfortably in their bodies.

My thoughts exactly. If I were a therapist, I wouldn't touch this subject with a ten foot pole, but you could be three sessions into therapy before it comes up.

The whole thing sounds like a minefield.

Anyway, just my initial thoughts in the heat, and I haven't read it yet. I'm sure someone will come along and correct me, which would be much appreciated, actually!

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 10:58

I’d like to see included third party coercion - eg when a ‘therapist’ tells parents that if they don’t affirm their child’s wish to be seen as the opposite sex their child may commit suicide.

EssexLounger · Yesterday 11:03

The problem comes from the definition of "transgender identity". The very definition of gender dysphoria is believing that you are something that you are not.

Making it illegal to tell a man that he is not a woman is problematic and the legislation will be set up in a way to allow for a test case at court. I'm sure TRAs already have test cases lined up.

BettyBooper · Yesterday 11:06

James Esses' take on X

'Breaking: The UK government has published a draft ‘Conversion Practices Bill’🚨

As expected, it is an utter nightmare. The fact that Stonewall is celebrating tells you everything you need to know.

On the week that it pushed forward with the puberty blockers trial, the government may now rob children of the opportunity to become comfortable in their own bodies.

It includes no exemption for parents. Parents who try to dissuade their children from ‘transitioning’ could be criminalised and put in prison for 5 years.

It further enshrines the notion of ‘transgender identity’ in the law and makes the offence ridiculously broad: “conduct causing someone to believe that they have or do not have a transgender identity”.

It further enshrines the notion of being ‘non-binary’ in the law.

The protection for therapists and other medical professionals is severely lacking, with a test of ‘reasonableness’ created. There is also a low threshold for what constitutes ‘abuse’.

Make no mistake about it, this Bill will criminalising talking. It poses a significant threat to freedom of speech, religious freedoms and to the safeguarding of vulnerable children.

It must not be allowed to become law.'

theilltemperedamateur · Yesterday 11:13

I think warring parents will use this as a weapon in the family courts (in both directions) which at least means some thought-out evidence-based judgments on what is really happening when a child 'decides' to 'change' their sex and perceived sexuality, including whether they are being subjected to psychological pressure and/or harms to their physical health.

Given the cognitive limitations of children, the impossibility of changing sex, and the non-zero physical harm caused by the attempt, it's high time to put a stop to proselytising to children, in every context.

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 11:20

After having read James Esses' take, if it really is that bad, I wonder if the new government will quietly scupper it or quietly dump it. If there are no protections for therapists, then no one in a professional therapy role will support this, only activist parents will support it, and LGB Alliance and Sex Matters will be all over it.

Too optimistic?

ps. or it will be debated ad nauseum so the government can stretch it out and then find some reason to say it will be "too expensive" to implement? (that's what they apparently do with everything they are virtue-signalling but have no intention of implementing)

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 11:30

From Stonewall (it's just so precious, I had to post some of it):

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/news/government-finally-publishes-long-overdue-draft-bill-to-ban-conversion-practices

[my bold]
"...From repealing Section 28, equalising the age of consent, lifting the ban on military service and marriage equality. We’ve always worked towards building a society which is free from discrimination, prejudice and inequality, and today’s announcement of a draft Bill to ban conversion practices is another step closer to this goal....

No one should be told there is something wrong with who they are....

...The draft legislation will now go through a process of pre-legislative scrutiny, before being considered by Parliament. Over the coming weeks and months we will carefully review the legislation, and continue to work with sector partners, Parliamentarans, and government to ensure the legislation is robust, effective, and puts and end to conversion practices once and for all...."

From Simon Blake, CEO:
**
"No one should be told they have to change who they are...."

An arrow and text reading 'Stonewall'

Government finally publishes long overdue draft Bill to ban…

Today represents a momentous step forward towards LGBTQ+ equality as the Government have finally published their long overdue draft Bill to ban conversion…

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/news/government-finally-publishes-long-overdue-draft-bill-to-ban-conversion-practices

Wishesandhorses · Yesterday 11:39

It's a charter for a lot of petty he said/she said court cases, most of which will be about hurt feelings and someone who breathed wrong or held the wrong facial expression at the wrong moment. And the excerpts strongly suggest, unsurprisingly, that while gay needs are mentioned briefly, the massive majority is all about trans.

Unintended consequences need to be examined to the absolute nth degree in this. For a start, obviously, many professionals just now refusing to take trans clients, or having contracts that state if gender comes up during work then the client will need to find another professional; why would anyone want to take these risks? Filming every session and recording every conversation would have to become standard practice in case a client takes them to court. This could easily lead to people wanting support with gender identity and related issues finding that there's pretty much no support left.

However I am looking at the brief mention of ^Conversion practice’ means … any conduct … with the intention of— (a) causing the individual— (i) to have or not to have, (ii) to believe that they have or do not have, a sexual orientation or a particular sexual orientation; ^

And indeed the proposed amendment: any conduct that uses coercion, threats or manipulation to cause the individual to change their sexual orientation

and thinking lesbians and gay men can get straight to court on that one re the cotton ceiling stuff and the 'learn to cope' stuff, and the 'sexual racism' stuff. Which will not be liked by TAs at all.

There's a reason why every time this has come up, it's been booted back into the long grass; it would create a lot of expensive mess, time wasting, wrangling and chaos. There's also no clear picture of what exactly this bill would achieve in terms of protection from real, serious coercive and abusive conversion practice (the historic stuff the gay community did actually suffer, electrodes and all) that is not covered by current law?

Wishesandhorses · Yesterday 11:42

No one should be told there is something wrong with who they are....

Unless they're homosexual or a woman who wants sex based rights and spaces?

Really? Is this an announcement of reciprocal tolerance all of a sudden?

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 11:45

Wishesandhorses · Yesterday 11:42

No one should be told there is something wrong with who they are....

Unless they're homosexual or a woman who wants sex based rights and spaces?

Really? Is this an announcement of reciprocal tolerance all of a sudden?

Wishful thinking or rewriting history, take your pick. Other facetious reasons are available.

EssexLounger · Yesterday 11:46

Non-binary doesn't exist and you can be locked up for telling someone that?

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 11:46

@Wishesandhorses I agree about the court cases. It's going to either be unworkable or unenforceable without a lot of legal shenanigans.

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 11:52

EssexLounger · Yesterday 11:46

Non-binary doesn't exist and you can be locked up for telling someone that?

I suspect that a lot of the "criminal" elements of this Bill will have to be watered down quite a bit, if it's ever to pass into law. Many people will argue that it's an affront to the right to free speech, which much of it would be, in my opinion.

Wishesandhorses · Yesterday 11:55

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 11:46

@Wishesandhorses I agree about the court cases. It's going to either be unworkable or unenforceable without a lot of legal shenanigans.

You'd think with the country broke on its arse, and the court system at breaking point in trying to deal with actual serious crime, the last thing the govt would want is to create a huge open door for a lot more timewasting in court over tiny petty matters at the taxpayer's expense. Always fur coat and no knickers.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Yesterday 11:58

Wishesandhorses · Yesterday 11:39

It's a charter for a lot of petty he said/she said court cases, most of which will be about hurt feelings and someone who breathed wrong or held the wrong facial expression at the wrong moment. And the excerpts strongly suggest, unsurprisingly, that while gay needs are mentioned briefly, the massive majority is all about trans.

Unintended consequences need to be examined to the absolute nth degree in this. For a start, obviously, many professionals just now refusing to take trans clients, or having contracts that state if gender comes up during work then the client will need to find another professional; why would anyone want to take these risks? Filming every session and recording every conversation would have to become standard practice in case a client takes them to court. This could easily lead to people wanting support with gender identity and related issues finding that there's pretty much no support left.

However I am looking at the brief mention of ^Conversion practice’ means … any conduct … with the intention of— (a) causing the individual— (i) to have or not to have, (ii) to believe that they have or do not have, a sexual orientation or a particular sexual orientation; ^

And indeed the proposed amendment: any conduct that uses coercion, threats or manipulation to cause the individual to change their sexual orientation

and thinking lesbians and gay men can get straight to court on that one re the cotton ceiling stuff and the 'learn to cope' stuff, and the 'sexual racism' stuff. Which will not be liked by TAs at all.

There's a reason why every time this has come up, it's been booted back into the long grass; it would create a lot of expensive mess, time wasting, wrangling and chaos. There's also no clear picture of what exactly this bill would achieve in terms of protection from real, serious coercive and abusive conversion practice (the historic stuff the gay community did actually suffer, electrodes and all) that is not covered by current law?

Edited

Agree, it cuts both ways.

Wishesandhorses · Yesterday 11:58

As we've also seen in Darlington case and the Peggie case; when it comes to he said and did/she said and did (even with contempraneous notes), after years of process and expense to get to the day in court, it's discarded because it's impossible to prove either way.

noblegiraffe · Yesterday 12:17

What the fuck is this poorly defined drivel?

  • (b) causing the individual—
  • (i) to have or not to have,
  • (ii) to believe that they have or do not have,
a transgender identity or a particular transgender identity

Do they have it or do they merely believe they have it and if they merely believe they have it but don't actually have it then what is wrong with trying to talk them out of it?

Say a kid has been obviously groomed online, egg cracking and all that bollocks. They now believe that they have a trans identity despite not showing any previous signs of gender incongruence. They are autistic and not having a good time with puberty and not fitting in with their peers.

What will be done about the online groomers? Nothing because they're not in the UK

And what will be done about the parent who sits down with their child and tells them they've been groomed? Criminalised?

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 12:25

From James Esses' post: and @noblegiraffe

It further enshrines the notion of ‘transgender identity’ in the law and makes the offence ridiculously broad: “conduct causing someone to believe that they have or do not have a transgender identity”.
It further enshrines the notion of being ‘non-binary’ in the law.

How do you "cause" someone to believe they have an identity? I suppose you can argue with someone, or threaten someone, until they say they believe they have a particular identity. But how do you prove it? (both the cause and the effect?)

But, honestly (!) how on earth do you cause someone to have an identity, and how do you prove that cause and effect? How is this measured? Do we all have secret magic powers that this Bill will release?

It further enshrines the notion of ‘transgender identity’ in the law
And, more seriously, how will this Bill/law fit alongside the EA 2010?

Zoonosis · Yesterday 12:31

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Yesterday 12:25

From James Esses' post: and @noblegiraffe

It further enshrines the notion of ‘transgender identity’ in the law and makes the offence ridiculously broad: “conduct causing someone to believe that they have or do not have a transgender identity”.
It further enshrines the notion of being ‘non-binary’ in the law.

How do you "cause" someone to believe they have an identity? I suppose you can argue with someone, or threaten someone, until they say they believe they have a particular identity. But how do you prove it? (both the cause and the effect?)

But, honestly (!) how on earth do you cause someone to have an identity, and how do you prove that cause and effect? How is this measured? Do we all have secret magic powers that this Bill will release?

It further enshrines the notion of ‘transgender identity’ in the law
And, more seriously, how will this Bill/law fit alongside the EA 2010?

Why do you think it would be in conflict with the EA?

NowSober · Yesterday 12:33

Zoonosis · Yesterday 12:31

Why do you think it would be in conflict with the EA?

Why do you think it would be in conflict with the EA?

In EA2010 the PC is 'gender reassignment' not 'transgender identity'.

Zoonosis · Yesterday 12:36

NowSober · Yesterday 12:33

Why do you think it would be in conflict with the EA?

In EA2010 the PC is 'gender reassignment' not 'transgender identity'.

Lots of pieces of legislation use slightly different terminology; unless the legislations overlap in their scope and the definitions create a conflict this isn't a problem. What do you think is the overlap or the conflict here?