Has there been an influx of TRAs to Mumsnet recently?

[ByTheRiverside]

I'm a long time reader. Only recently started to participate.

I very rarely saw any TRAs on here over the years. But in the past few weeks, I've noticed a lot of them coming here.

You can generally tell by the absolute shite coming out of their mouths, such as being avid apologists for sex offenders.

What's their deal with coming here? Are they saying that their 'womanhood' is reliant on us conforming to their belief, so they're trying to get us to agree with them? If that's so, then welcome!!! You're going to have to get used to reality real quick if you stick around.

Has anyone else noticed this, or just me?

Exactly. But as I said earlier in this thread there is no obligation on anyone to respond to obvious de-rails.

the phrase “cis gender” is such a bait, it used to give me the rage. I now realise that if i see that phrase i can completely ignore the post because it will be from either a be kind twat or a TIM, without possession of any level of logic.

The be kind women are the most annoying if they will not shift in planet women. I was one of the be kinds once upon a time until i heard, read and understood.

assuming they are women.

as for TRA’s, and TIMS who pop up, the law and civil society, has started turning and the hysteria is palpable. They come here to vent, so to me whatever.

I am in a cult.

the cult of reality

Well…….

YES!

Intentional derailing of a thread by spamming tons and tons of posts with word salad

I had it happen with one of my threads recently and wasn't able to continue the discussion on the original topic. I had more I wanted to say! 😂

We should all agree to just ignore them 🙈

And also the time of day they post (night-time in UK, daytime in US). There always seems to be a fresh slew of posts if I check the boards early morning UK-time

That's not very fair on American or Australians 😉

Degenerate lifestyles tend to be all-encompassing. They spend all their time on computers because they can only pretend not to be their sex on the internet.

That's why they're up at god knows what time.

That's a really silly remark. As late at night is my only quiet time I am often on this forum, and know others are as well!

Its a bit smug and tiny bit limiting to assume only those who act and live like you have anything to say.

As i keep saying threads only get derailed because far to many take the bait and answer. Which is pointless. They dont pay any attention. They are interested in what you have to say. They just want to take up your time, whilst laughing at you, and achieving what they set out to do. Derail a thread.

Because the thread wouldn't be derailed if every body ignored them.

Because the thread wouldn't be derailed if every body ignored them.

Yes, it's my mid-year resolution not to respond to nonsense. I'm happy to engage in genuine debate, but not with bad faith posters.

Have you considered it's often people who love our trans family, friends and colleagues and are upset by the tone of aggressive sarcasm directed at them on here.

To be clear, I'm not saying that's everyone. Fair few kind people have responded to me, and don't use slurs or misgendering to describe my child. They don't theorise about why he exists, accuse me of making him trans (!!) or make speculative, highly personal comments about his body. And they aren't on here all day sharing conspiracy theories about kids like him. Shame they're in the minority, really.

The pseudo-anthropology, rage and dehumanisation directed at trans people on this forum is deeply upsetting. It's having real-world effects, contributing to the extreme violence trans people (especially children) are coping with, which is destroying their lives.

Seeing our loved ones discussed like they're some evil gang is horrible.

Pushback is happening because of the ignorant, angry and honestly quite paranoid attitude some posters are displaying towards real people.

Calling trans people and their families 'TRAs' and discussing them in venomous, openly hateful, conspiratorial terms is sickening. It upsets me very much. Because I want my child to live, and seeing the poisonous attitude to people like him on here is going to make me react, yeah.

“They’re probably foreigners, with ways different to our own”.

Emotional blackmail is a square on the bingo card.

This a public forum, nobody's made you share your personal details. Nobody is under any obligation to sugarcoat their response to you, if they feel strongly that what your doing is fundamental wrong.

You're not above a bit of aggressive sarcasm yourself. It's visible even in this ^ post. And you're not above dehumanising and labelling women on here. Perhaps it's easier to do that than consider that sometimes we might have a point. Especially when it comes to male violence.

Many posters are victims of male violence, which is why we don't want trans identifying males in our spaces and services. THAT has real-world effects on women and children.

Paranoia is thinking everyone is against your child. They aren't. It sounds like your child has had a terrible time. The school should have dealt with the bullying. Clearly they didn't and clearly there are unresolved issues there.

To put it bluntly, you speak on here as if you're the leading authority on trans people. You aren't. Many posters are parents, children, siblings, friends and colleagues of trans people. And their views and experiences are valid too.

Well, cheers for illustrating my point and fully backing up my argument, I guess.

Should've added 'ignore the point being made, accuse the poster of saying something else then argue that', because you've done that as well.

Cheers for the DARVO, and accusing me of things I didn't actually do.

Where did I declare myself an authority, then? I simply speak from experience, replying people on here who speak about being trans like it's a disease or conspiracy.

I am a cis woman. Dehumanisation of women would affect me 🙄

And yeah fine, I am a supportive parent. I know some aren't and prefer to spend all day on here seeking justification for hurting their child instead. Baffling though that is to me.

I see a lot of posters call people who don't like open, violent bigotry 'TRAs' or 'MRAs' (again: cis woman and feminist here) as a way of shutting down debate and swerving criticism of their abusive behaviour. That's incredibly toxic.

Being aggressively sarcastic and paranoid about trans people is not debate. Online transphobia is pointless, solves none of the very real and urgent problems affecting women - and contributes directly to anti-trans violence. Much of it sexual violence.

Oh and p.s.

Reporting the effects anti-trans rhetoric have had on my family isn't 'emotional blackmail'. It is the truth.

It's me who's refusing to sugarcoat.

Me me me me me

I think you'll find trans posters like Seethlaw, who speak eloquently and interestingly are very much not denigrated on MN. Transition by proxy, a bit like Munchausens by proxy is quite reasonably judged.

I feel sorry for your daughter who has been so badly let down by her school, the other pupils, and her family. Everyone around her, really.

Have you considered it's often people who love our trans family, friends and colleagues and are upset by the tone of aggressive sarcasm directed at them on here.

That's understandable. And quite frankly, if it upsets you that much, I suggest you take a break from it.

The pseudo-anthropology, rage and dehumanisation directed at trans people on this forum is deeply upsetting.

Again: if it upsets you that much, then please take a break, for your own good! I'm a trans person myself and nothing said here by GC people upsets me at all. Some stuff said by TRAs, however...

It's having real-world effects, contributing to the extreme violence trans people (especially children) are coping with, which is destroying their lives.

This is way beyond hyperbole. Trans people as a rule do not experience "extreme violence" at all, and transphobia is not "destroying their lives". That's simply not true.

Seeing our loved ones discussed like they're some evil gang is horrible.

Trans people are not an evil gang. We are a group in which there are massively evil people, with evil intentions, and those people need to be exposed and stopped.

Calling trans people and their families 'TRAs'

TRA just means Trans Rights Activist. It's not insulting in any way.

And now, please, for your own sake, take a break from this place, because clearly it's affecting you in a very negative way. You absolutely don't have to keep coming here!

Okay, fine. You read what you want to read, even though it wasn't what I wrote. And you don't understand the meaning of DARVO.

When we speak about trans people and TRAs on here, 99% of the time we are talking about trans identifying males - and of those, 100% of the time we mean the nasty, aggressive, splintery rolling pin ones. They are the TRAs. And yes, we ARE angry when it comes to discussing them.

If your child doesn't fall into that category, then we aren't talking about your child.

Women need a space to discuss this subset of entitled men. Males, FTAOD. Why be angry at us? Be angry at the TRAs who are lumped in under the same umbrella as your child. Not at women who want to keep males out of their spaces and will fight to do so.

This.

I'm tired today of being polite and accommodating, after a rough week dealing with other people's strategic stupidity. Honest truth? 3-year-old is perfect, in a scarily literal way. It's just toddlerish. "You hate me! You're horrid! Bad Mummies!"

But I'd compare some recent visitors with self-consciously "clever", egotistical teens, to be honest.

They're doing better than the sheer stupidity and ad homs of most... but there's a different kind of immaturity. The one where lots and lots and lots of bigly words, creative metaphors and looong (confused) sentences and paragraphs = Instant Intellectual Superiority. Where My Experience = Universal Truth.

Lot of us go through this at some point. But we find our way through it. Or we even just cut that crap overnight, as I did, in shame, the moment an early uni tutor called me out on it. And that just ain't happenin' here.

I find it interesting to understand why the shift, though. Cos I do think there's been one in tone and approach.

A failed attempt to be conciliatory (because so much of it is almost as offensive - more so, really, in total indifference and insularity being presented as not only morally superior - the usual - but intellectually superior, too)?

A new demographic as interest and awareness broaden - including that we've actually got some pretty good arguments on our side, you know, darnit, and that we share them here?

Sending us their very best fighters as ever more battles are lost and winning the war's ever more in question?

I dunno.

For now, I'm find it quite interesting, and it's given me a few new insights. But those insights include the near-constant reminder that even members of the (male) demographic for whom I retain most (cautious, curious) concern... may be almost incapable of reciprocating said concern. Helpful.

Quite, I cited on another thread one of my uni profs who in a one on one supervison let me waffle on for a good 5 minutes before saying 'yes but what did you mean?' I never did it again....

Have you ever considered that some of us might have trans relatives who we love and are concerned about, and yet.... we still understand that humans can't change sex and can see the risks to women's right and the appalling sexism inherent in trans ideology?

The 'poisonous attitudes' towards women that have seen them doxxed, sacked and attacked for stating things they everyone knew to be true until about a decade ago and the erosion of women's rights (to fair competition in sport, to safety and privacy in changing rooms and prisons) have made a lot of women very, very angry. You shouldn't be surprised by this response.

Excellent - love it!

I think I went through two phases.

An English teacher gently mocked my "purple prose" (you'll be amazed to hear I was like that, I'm sure!), and I did better for a while... but it was my first uni essay that really set me straight. I can't remember what they said, but can still remember the office and sense of embarrassed epiphany.

(I still wage editorial war on my posts here - an unhealthy fondness for adverbs endures when I'm writing about something I really - there's one of them buggers! - care about!)

Do you want to know what hurts my child? The promotion of an ideology that insists she should have no single sex provision whatsoever. And fucking right I will push back against it and anyone promoting it.