Is "gender identity" real?

[ByTheRiverside]

I'd like to hear your thoughts!

TRAs argue that being "transgender" is a real thing. They think there's some distinct quality to the way someone perceives themselves as a male or female, magically unobserved, that lives in the brain called "gender identity".

For my opinion - Sex Realists don't believe in this concept. We believe "transgender" is a lie, and that people are either male or female. That "gender identity" is a made-up idea that masks all of the obvious issues like autism, internalised homophobia, misogyny, sexism, sexual fetishes, etc.

What are your thoughts? Does "gender identity" exist in everyone, and are any "trans" people "valid" because of it?

And a follow-up question: As we know "gender identity" isn't real, is it possible to "prove a negative" here and come up with a hypothesis that may disprove it?

I really don't get this endless chewing over of a subject that doesn't even effect the majority of people commenting.

It does affect all of us when the subject - and lack of profession of faith in the subject - gets women fired from jobs, loss of sex based rights, loss of single sex spaces, children having irreversible medical procedures and becoming medicalised for life without any strong evidence base...

This. Absolutely this. Becoming comfortable in your skin can take a very long time and may be least likely to happen in a school environment.

This whole gender issue wouldn't be an issue if people didn't get so wound up about gender stereotypes. We were getting towards this in the 80's and 90's when people could be who they wanted. Men could wear make up and dresses without it meanng they had to 'feel like a woman' and suddenly we became all princesses are for girls and dinasours are for boys and policing what people looked like taking us back decades.

No. It’s a load of shit.

I'm just going to add to this, that whilst i believe some people do think they have a gender identity, even though i don't understand that, I very much think single sex spaces are important. Men can't become women and vice versa.

Believing you are a woman or feeling like a woman when you’re not are very different from being an actual woman.

I’m sure for various reasons they do believe it but it doesn’t mean it has significance. Likewise millions believe in various religions it doesn’t make them true.

Yes it does seem that it is all of the superficial parts of the stereotypical female gender that men who identify as women take on. I can't say what another person's inner feelings are. From observing transgender males they certainly retain the male arrogance and superiority traits so it's all very weird.

It’s always very interesting to note which posts trigger reporting to MNHQ. I saw it before it went; you were obviously right.

It’s no more real than the bedtime fairy tales I read to my DC.
Both may be stories that some people find compelling, but they both remain a work of fiction

Gender identity is such a backward, restrictive concept that I can barely believe that anyone thinks it is a real thing in 2026, never mind that the people who believe in it are fighting harder than ever to convince people that it is a real thing.

It's 2036. Men can wear dresses (and actually always have worn skirts in the UK), women can wear Doc Martins and have a buzzcut.

Your sex is defined by your genetics. Your behaviour is completely up to you.

This is your third poll on gender issues in ten days. Can I ask why?

No one (who believes in trans) has ever been able to explain why the same concept can’t be applied to age, height, race or even our own sense of humanity (I’d love to be a cat!) or other immutable characteristics.

Well, what do you mean by 'real'?

It's a belief. Beliefs are real, people believe all sorts of things.

No. It’s all a load of stereotyping nonsense. Long hair, dresses and make up don’t make someone a woman, and short hair and trousers don’t make you a man. You can have cosmetic surgery and take hormones but that doesn’t alter your DNA.

And a follow-up question: As we know "gender identity" isn't real, is it possible to "prove a negative" here and come up with a hypothesis that may disprove it?

What is someone's 'gender identity' if they are naked in a shower?

Apply it to race, age etc and it’s a problem because it impacts men. Gender is ok because that mainly impacts women.

Gender identity is clearly very real to some people and I think denying that is daft. What matters more is the importance you give to that

that doesn’t mean that I don’t believe there are only two sexes, male and female and you are what you are

my understanding is that roughly speaking if you feel comfortable with your sex and with the way society treats you as a result you may feel that you identify with that gender ( and the opposite of course ) . Or you may not identify with any gender because that doesn’t fit your self image.

many English people Identify as British rather than English - identity is how you feel about yourself rather than any fact

so gender identity is real but I think it should be totally irrelevant- in the same way as I don’t know which of my English friends identify as British rather than English because it doesn’t matter

'Cis' is terminology that only means something if you have embraced transgender ideology. An ideology is a set of ideas about how the world does or should work. Most of us here understand this; but we don't subscribe to it.

And in case you had not been aware this particular sub-forum has been one of the only forums in which people who reject this ideology have been free, relatively, to discuss it for many years.

Everyone is affected when a radical ideology is imposed upon society; and when people are punished or censored when trying to talk about it. Furthermore, when you redefine 'woman' to include some men then everything we know to be true about the reality of sex, and our experience as female people, is impacted.

'Gender identity' is nothing but 'feelings' , even by your own explanation above. It is not measurable; has no consistency; and is reliant purely on self reporting

Many of us here have plenty of experience with this; either as parents or as professionals; or simply as people who give a shit about what is being pushed onto children; and who are angered about the way that women's established protections have been ridden rough-shod.

Gender identity isn’t ‘real’ in any meaningful sense - as in I don’t believe it should have any influence whatsoever over other people. I don’t particularly care if someone believes in gender identity ideology - as per JKR, they can call themselves whatever they like and dress however they like etc. But for me it’s somewhere between a personality quirk and religion. Neither of those should have any influence at all on public policy etc and they shouldn’t infer additional rights on anyone. I also do not believe that the NHS should be funding body modifications or cross sex hormones for any patients with this motivation - mental health support only. I don’t believe there is any validity to the claims of anyone to be the opposite sex.

If they're applying rose scented shower cream with a pink bath mitt, its lady. If they're slapping some lynx under their pits it's man.
Obviously.🙄

Do I as someone that is GC think that Gender identuty is real, yes I do.

Do I think that it is the same thng that you do? Probably not.

Unless you are prepared to define gender and what it means in proper terms. none of the feelz rubbish then we may be able to come to an accord but it would mean that TRAs and their allies would
1/ have to agree on what gender meant
2/ Accept that biological sex comes first
3/ Actually have an adult discussion on what is happening
4/ Accept that other people matter.

I'm non binary mate. Does that mean I'm allowed to discuss the subject?

Do you think only trans people have a gender identity?

But "feeling comfortable with your sex" and "feeling comfortable with the way society treats you as a result of your sex" are two very different things. Lots of women have very valid objections to how society treats women, but don't think that this means they are a man.

my understanding is that roughly speaking if you feel comfortable with your sex and with the way society treats you as a result you may feel that you identify with that gender

I’m not comfortable with the way society treats me as a result of my sex. As a woman in a patriarchy I find it pretty difficult to be anything other than pissed off at the way my sex is treated. I don’t think that means I have a gender identity.

ETA: I don’t know any women who are comfortable with the way society treats them as a result of their sex - from talking to them they’re all as uncomfortable with it as I am.

Don’t think you have read much on this forum if you think there isn’t a great deal of nuanced discussion.

But I suspect your prejudice allows you to prejudge everyone here as being not as good as you. If you are only interested in teen level insults and snidey comments, you’re in the wrong place. If you are interested in discussing ideas then you will find it interesting.