Should gender reassignment remain a protected characteristic?

[toyl9876]

Should gender reassignment be a protected characteristic? If no, why?

Oh, I don't have to imagine that. It is boasted about.

Duck and weave about PIE, why don't you? Because there sure as hell was a conspiracy to get sexual access to children. Still is if they can get away with it. (Their idiot fellow-travellers seem to think it a price worth paying. But then those ft are not the children who are abused....)

Incidentally, I don't think you can have read The Prince.

I ignored it because it’s such obvious bullshit and just part of the same delusional conspiracy you believe.

What, The Prince is? You're the one blethering about something being Machiavellian.

If you mean PIE, I can promise you they were not a delusion. Conspiracy, yes. Delusion, no.

Plenty here remember PIE all too well; the letters to the Guardian, the sympathetic interviews... these things all happened. We have the receipts.

I know they existed, but the assertion they were responsible for trans rights is what is bullshit.

I didn't say that they were; I suggested that they were at least partly to blame, since a least some of them (the ones not in prison at the time as a result of their continuing lawless behaviour) were very much in favour of trans people being accorded all sorts of privileges that would make the PIE objectives easier to achieve.

And what is the actual evidence for that claim? Trans advocacy didn’t even exist in its current form at the time. That came much later with Press for Change, and they didn’t just get handed rights. They had to fight a case to Europe to get the same protections as anyone else.

By then they'd got the NCCL (as it was then known) and other similar bodies onside.

Like many others first we would need a workable definition of “gender” and “reassignment” that doesn't rely on sex based stereotypes.

Ah, so all members of PIE died after Harriet Harman ceased to advocate for them and they were officially disbanded? Yeah right.

Only it wasn't until 2006 that the Met Police Paedophile Unit arrested a lot of the PIE membership. And one was arrested in 2005 and finally jailed (with a thirteen year sentence) only in 2014. Another was jailed in 2016 with a sentence of 24 years. In 2024 the BBC investigated the people on the membership list which had come into their possession, and found that of the 45% of people on the list whom they investigated, half had been convicted for one offence against children or another; I don't suppose the rest suddenly altered their proclivities after PIE was disbanded in 1984.

So no, they hadn't all conveniently ceased to exist by the time trans advocacy had become available as a cause to latch onto and push. Many of them were leading blameless lives (or at least, had not been caught dead to rights and convicted) as teachers, social workers, sports coaches, youth workers, doctors, clergy, lay preachers and military officers involved in youth activities. Funny how those all seem to involve being in positions of authority over children, isn't it....

Do you imagine it as some sort of well funded Machiavellian plot to take rights from women?

It doesn't have to be either Machiavellian or well funded. Men have been oppressing women for as long as there have been men and women. This is just another form of it, which involves men removing the rights to single-sex spaces women have fought for by effectively making them mixed sex.

I’m sorry but what the hell are you actually talking about? I asked you for evidence about your claim that PIE supported or were partially responsible for trans rights. All you’ve told me is that the people continued to exist (obviously) after the group disbanded.

Yes, like for instance the Young Liberals. Who didn't grow up and become adult members of the Liberal Party, at all, any of them.... (Fair play to Peter Hain, he did see through PIE, but he was in a minority.)

And they managed to get themselves deeply embedded in the campaigning for gay rights, which as we know went on to become such organisations as Stonewall.

I think it is very naif to think that when the media stopped reporting on them because they were no longer being very overt about their aims and using the name which had been revealed as being an organisation of men who advocated sex-with-children and no-age-of-consent, they ceased to exist.

It’s the Denton’s document that you need for evidence of the deliberate strategy to bolt trans rights (mainly self ID and replacing sex with gender identity) onto something more popular such as gay marriage.

Rather than campaign directly for what they really wanted because if you ask the public directly “should any man be able to declare he is a woman and gain entry to female protected spaces?” they tend to say “no, don’t be stupid”.

Links in this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985584-anyone-have-a-copy-of-the-dentons-report

But that is all based on the fact that GR is a protected characteristic and therefore confers anti-diacrimination rights. It doesn't explain why people should have those rights.

For those who think there is no link between PIE, the Scottish Labour Party, the Scottish Parliament, Unison and all the other PIEs they had their mitts in, you could maybe start with Ian Dunn and all his 'activism' and contacts.

I mean; its just a complete coincidence that Scotland is so deep into Gender Identity Ideology right?

Deer.

Ask yourself some questions. Why have TM and non binary females found ways of locating unisex toilets. But men who want to be women find this degrading and outing?

Why do adult men who want to be women call themselves girls, but adult women who want to be men dont call themselves boys?

We know that womens toilets and changing rooms are called ladies/women/female, but are for girls too.

If a man goes into a women toilet 100 times, theres a chance that he'll be alone with a girl at least once.

Most men would find that compromising, embarrassing, inappropriate, so they avoid putting themselves in that position.

But a group of men who like to call themselves girls, are up in arms that they are stopped from having that opportunity.

Thats why people are talking about PIE.

Sorry, it was a long post. The relevant bit is in second part.

"Even if there was no PC of GR it could be the same outcome under the PC of Disability and/or Belief."

Then jump to:

Manifestation of religion or beliefs

🎯

Add to that the behaviour of this cult, the obsession with kids - remember that Mermaids used to take lollipops and puppies to Pride to attract the children - the desperation to get them away from their parents and to be their 'found family' - the obsession with getting 'happy fluffy pride love is love books with just a few bits of grandad's bondage gear' into schools - the fact that this whole ideology was fermented on TUBMLR which spilled out when they banned porn - I mean this is just the tip of the iceberg to be honest.