Should gender reassignment remain a protected characteristic?

[toyl9876]

Should gender reassignment be a protected characteristic? If no, why?

I've previously tried to engage on here and got dismissive comments rather than intellectual discourse. Instead of Ted Lasso 'Be curious, not judgmental.' I got insults rather than questions

I've never seen Ted Lasso, and know nothing of him/it. Am I missing out on some eternal truths?

You'll probably get both. As we repeatedly explain, we are not a hive mind.

You may have too look at those that have claimed to come for a discussion before and have done nothing but a disservice to the trans community.
It is also worth remembering that for a long time MN was one of the very few places that even allowed people to have any opposing view to that of TWAW and #Nodebate.

If the trans lobby had engaged earlier then we wouldn't be in the situation that we are in now.

It is a very good show.

@moto748e it's a show about an American managing a football team in the UK and Anthony Head was in the scene thinking cos he was American he couldn't play darts. It's quite inspirational.

Thanks @HenriettaSwanLeavitt, it's just I was burnt horribly before

The mods would have deleted anything against guidelines.

I was burnt horribly before

So you thought you'd try opening with an insult and a victim complex to get a better result? Interesting tactic.

As to your point about surgery not working as a requirement, it's already established in European human rights law that rights can't be contingent on requiring people to have major surgery. And it would be unworkable in practice for the EA (if legal, it could be practicable as a requirement for obtaining a GRC - which might make it indirectly the cutoff for EA protection; but as it's not legal that's moot).

The irony isn’t lost. A well paid man in tech who thinks the taxpayer should fund his cosmetic surgery even though the fact he is male will have enabled his high pay in order that he can afford to go private anyway.

You have the right to make yourself look however you want, by whatever means. Why should doing so give you more rights than anyone else, and in doing so reduce rights for those more vulnerable than you?

Why is that an outcome of you making yourself look a way that pleases you in the mirror?

I'm a big Ted Lasso fan. In fact my cat is named after Roy Kent.

But he is still a boy cat even after his balls were removed.

Not sure what the point of your post is but to set yourself up as a victim before any words have even been typed in response. What has your access to plastic surgery got to do with 'gender reassignment' being a protected characteristic? Maybe you could explain that in your response?

Anthony Head played the ex owner of a football team, which passed to his ex wife as part of the divorce and in order to spite her now ex husband, she hired Ted as a big Fuck You to him. It looks like you've just watched the one scene that was picked up and did the rounds and have remembered that one line to trot out when required. My favourite line from the show is 'he's here, he's there, he's every bloody where'.

Most of the women on here are not judgemental. They just know that men as a sex class are a threat to women as a sex class. And they want a word to describe ther own sex class which is women, and for the opposite sex class of men to obey the law.

A middle aged man telling women we should be curious not judgmental about him declaring himself a women says everything about why we are skeptical about the PC in the first place.

I have no problem with you having whatever surgery you want and can afford, or dressing however you want (provided it is decent and appropriate for being in public).

I would have a problem with you if you went into a female changing room, or tried to join a female sports team, or took a position or role reserved for females.

Because, despite being a transwoman, you are a male and will always be a male.

This.

@HenriettaSwanLeavitt Please see the responses to my messages there's no middle ground with some people and I just want to bridge the gap but it feels a fool's errand

I see no issue with the responses. Say what you want to say, or don't. It's just the internet; you'll survive.

As usual, there is no middle ground; not even when scads of posters make it clear that they are not hard line flog'em and hang'em, just people who want to stop being perpetually nagged at and don't like to see their legal rights whittled away for the benefit of a small number of very vocal nuisances plus a cohort of nasty bits of work who make death threats and try to terrify all women into submission. And a number of possibly well-meaning but extremely hurtful people who attack them for disagreeing about what those intractable types see as "immutable truth".

ThisBluePanda

What would you like to see happen and how would it be respectful to all sides?

Maybe there are even benefits to a gender critical world view of having gender reassignment as a protected characteristic. Having its own characteristic makes it clearly separate from sex, and gives the law and associated explanatory notes the opportunity to make clear the exceptions. Now we have it gold plated from the supreme court that having the pc of gender reassignment does not change your category under sex. Could that have been articulated as clearly without a defined pc for gender reassignment?

I do see it as a side-benefit of any attempt at legislating for a transgender category that someone does have to try to codify into words what exactly puts someone in that category (and therefore also what does not).

What I wonder is, what's going to happen in the future, in five, ten year's time? Are we still going to see the pipeline of 'trans kids' (I'm just talking about the UK, obv)? If we don't, the picture may start to look different.

How odd and entitled that you expect us to be curious about your choices. If you want to have cosmetic surgery, go ahead, it's your body. No judgement, but also no particular interest.

But if you expect us to pay for your cosmetic surgery out of public funds, of course we will judge such entitlement.

And if you expect us to join in with your role-play, whether before or after your cosmetic procedures - nope. Not happening. Not hateful, not rude. Just healthy boundaries.

It really isn't fair to talk of it as "role-play". I know a LOT of people who do live (to rhyme with hive not with give) role-playing as a recreation, and I have never met one whose entire life was centred around banging on and on about the character he or she played and how mean everyone was to that type of character.

Another thing TRAs have spoiled, then.

Ha, yes, an ex of mine enjoyed larping as an English civil war soldier on the odd weekend, it didn't translate into his daily life....

I've known people who were muddy evil in the same way. As a result, I still use the phrase "subtle as a Sussex axe-man" occasionally.

It's like old-skool drag artistes, isn't it? Whether or not you think drag is ever acceptable, the fact is that Danny La Rue was Daniel Patrick Carroll who dressed up as Danny La Rue; Lily Savage was Paul O'Grady who dressed up as Lily Savage.

They were men who dressed up as women and put on a theatrical performance, and then took off the sparkly dress and the make up and returned to being men.