Article on "arguing with a TERF"

[MyAmpleSheep]

I love to keep up with the other side, so here's a lot of words just to say "it's complicated." meanwhile he ignores the obvious answer to his own question.

www.fasttrackfemme.com/p/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-with

as I explained in other comments

anyone else seeing this when consensus (the irony of that name!) gets a little bit snippy?

It is a fully plumbed, fully enclosed, self-contained room
www.conceptcubiclesystems.co.uk/product-guide/universal-toilets?hl=en-GB

Under the new Document T regulations, a universal toilet must be a fully enclosed room that contains its own WC, washbasin, mirror, and hand-drying facilities inside for individual use.
The guidelines explicitly state that there should be no shared hand-washing facilities in the circulation spaces outside these washrooms. All amenities must be contained within the private room itself.
www.bushboard-washrooms.co.uk/news-media/approved-document-t?hl=en-GB

This design directly addresses privacy to ensure that no one is washing their hands, managing periods, or adjusting clothing in an exposed, mixed-sex communal area.

He actually reminds me of the bloke who 'wrote' the original article. That man would salami slice the objections so that more and more trans identifying men were excluded from women's spaces just not him, and with no acknowledgement that whatever he suggested has to work in the imperfect real world.

This one and his AI has pivoted to some frankly creepy technology that monitors all your movements and sounds in the toilet. Thinks it'll stop vandalism, while in the perfect privacy (apart from the machine that is watching you) of these sealed rooms they'll be the first thing that is vandalised. All the staff that are let go while simultaneously checking, cleaning and restocking these loos at the behest of their mechanical overlord and the rest of the business of school apparently that won't need them anymore either.

I'm not certain but I doubt this technology currently exists in a form that could be applied as he thinks. I doubt most schools could afford the initial investment in installation, the infrastructure changes, the ongoing maintenance and calibration costs. Assuming the parents don't freak out at the very idea.

This design directly addresses privacy to ensure that no one is washing their hands, managing periods, or adjusting clothing in an exposed, mixed-sex communal area.

So do single sex toilets.

I've come to the conclusion that TW really want is opportunity of 'sink time' with women.

Well I know, you fund it then. Go get backers, pitch your design and go for it. I’m sure you’ll have people lining up to invest.

that has been my (lived - ha!) experience

Yup! Totally see that. And can imagine the typing getting angrier and angrier 😂😂😂😂

Isn't there a version of Dragon's Den in the states? Get a working prototype of the 'eye in the bog' and pitch it to them.

🍿

I don't think I should repeat something I said 3 comments ago, when I can just guide someone to read back if they didn't instead. Not trying to be rude, we got on the subject of a good bathroom design, I'm open to be wrong or adopt someone else's design, and I'll discuss about it with people who are interested to point out what flaws my design has and how their proposed one is better.

'I've developed this amazing AI that listens to and watches people using the toilet and reports on what they're doing to their boss or head teacher'

'I'm not finished, why are you bundling me into the lift Evan?'

Of course they do. They want girly chit chat and makeup tips and compliments on their outfits. Oh and don't forget the chance to offer tampons. They love to share sanpro.

I think MCs amazing tiny cubicles, sinks in a corridor design could actually increase the danger to transwomen-because there will be a few dads out there outraged at a bloke talking to their teenaged daughters about their periods.

actual scenes chez consensus

When I first brought up this design I linked how it was used by Grant High School in the Portland Public School District

Hahaha yes Dragon’s Den there is called “Shark Tank” I think

Well said, bumping for anyone who might have missed this excellent observation amid the PayAttentionToMeTheImportantMan screeds of AI-generated word salad.

20th (even late 19th century) public or shared toilet design had no flaws. It recognised biological reality and the different needs of the sexes. At its best it included a full time caretaker attendant of the appropriate sex who attended to the cleanliness of the facilities and to users' needs and safety, and repelled people who should not be admitted (drunks, known drug users, members of shoplifting or pickpocket gangs, people of the wrong sex).

There were quite a lot of them, they were clean and safe, basically perfect, and an admirable use of public money. There should have been a higher ratio of women's to men's, and there should have been more accessible loos. That's all.

Loos in schools, colleges and workplaces also worked.

The provision system wasn't broken, it doesn't need fixing.

Men and transwomen in the men's, women in the women's, transmen in either.

Complete non-tolerance of violent reaction to gender nonconformity.
Complete non-tolerance of breaking the sex-based conventions of decorum.

"less private overall set up while preserving the privacy... of users."

First, no one needs to change building codes to allow for this; the codes have already changed.
The UK's Document T explicitly mandates that new universal toilets must be fully enclosed, self-contained rooms with their own sinks.

Second, universal self-contained rooms do not use "twice the floor space." They actually optimize facility footprint and throughput.
In a traditional segregated setup, square footage is wasted on large communal sink areas and empty men's stalls while a queue is forming outside the women's room. Universal, self-contained rooms mean 100% of the fixtures are available to 100% of the users, 100% of the time. That is spatial efficiency.

Lastly, automated alerting systems do not have to route specifically to a head teacher's desk.
They integrate into existing management network and route to available staff, exactly the same way a fire alarm panel works.

Is that not one of the ones that @Keeptoiletssafe has explained will result in increased numbers of deaths? Will result, not may result.

May result in greater numbers of assaults.
May result in more abuse of the facilities.

IThe UK's Document T explicitly mandates that new universal toilets must be fully enclosed, self-contained rooms with their own sinks.

I'm not talking about universal toilets. I'm talking about old school single sex shared space toilets, as would be easily apparent to anyone using their actual brain

everything OK chicken?

I've had a quick Google, I think the electronic monitoring is in the communal areas only. Portland seems a bit nuts though so perhaps they've actually put it in the stalls. It doesn't seem that it could distinguish regular movement from someone who was ill or scrolling.

@GriseldaandMike
"So do single sex toilets"

True, it offers the basic privacy of single sex toilets while offering optimizations on safety, queue times, and long-term costs.

How about we just keep things as they are and men stay out of the women's loos?

Even extra special men who think they're laydees.

Who cleans them when (not if) men pee on the seats and floors?

How quick a response time? Where are the cleaners and the equipment?

while making users less safe overall

I'd also say I need to see receipts on 'safety, queue times, and long-term costs' but at this point I simply can't be fucked to read your longer posts as they're just so circular and factually inaccurate

do you actually know you're talking nonsense?