Gareth Southgate: we need to teach boys differently to girls to get the best out of them

[WarriorN]

Gareth Southgate: We need to teach boys differently to girls to get best out of them https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgp5g34kzpo

interesting article …

The issue of improving boys' attainment was around 40 years ago when I trained as a teacher and before. Society has changed but the issue remains the same. Nothing new here, Gareth.

'"I think anybody that's worked with either sex at a younger age knows there are some fundamental differences," he told BBC Radio 4'

I agree. Most boys are pretty bored in school.

Differences between boys and girls?

What?

I think part of the problem is that women, who have been second class citizens for so long, have worked very hard to improve their lot. Society has had to change to move towards equality (although still a way to go). Men on the other hand, who have been used to being too dog, having everything done for them, making the rules etc have not matured, grown and developed. Some have but most don’t want things to change.

How much has education changed over the centuries? My understanding is that it was always sitting in a classroom doing lessons, taking exams? Perhaps there was more outdoor time and I do think this has been cut and is an issue (for both sexes). So it hasn’t really changed that much, biggest change is girls being educated the same as boys).

So what differences is he suggesting?

One of the reasons girls/women find it ‘easier’ to get work is that they traditionally and still do take jobs that are serving/caring. There are quite a few of these jobs around but men don’t want them as they are ‘womens’ work. Men haven’t moved on, they are stuck with the expectation of a well paid job that fits what, in their minds, a man does. There are plenty of trade jobs but evidently it’s hard to get young people to stick at them.

Anyway I agree there is a problem with make mental health, I’m not dismissing it (I have a son) but what are men wanting and what are THEY going to do about it.

Well we all know that girls mature earlier than boys and the disparity at age 15/16 is quite stark, both physically and cognitively.

I have thought recently (my son is taking his GCSE's right now) that most girls are ready for their GCSE's at 15/16, and can approach the revision and commitment in a slightly more mature and organised way. Boys just haven't quite reached this maturity yet and I think this shows in the results.

I know a change in exams dates will never happen though as it's logistically impossible.

There are plenty of trade jobs but evidently it’s hard to get young people to stick at them

The problem with trade jobs, especially in building/roofing etc, is that many (not all of course!) of the men our young lads would be working with are knuckleheads and actually unpleasant to be around. Both of my brothers tried building trades and had to listen to misogynistic crap all day and it put them off for life.

Fair play to him actually doing the legwork and talking with young men and boys.

I wanted to say this is untrue (SGS is a plasterer) but then I remembered the v. pleasant roofer coming to fix my roof and I suspect he is quite sexist and misogynist - from what I know of his social circle.

Yes, but the vogue for a few decades has been for mixed sex teaching and most pupils go to mixed sex secondary schools.....so him pointing out that this is not always advantageous for either boys or girls is welcome, surely?

I know a change in exams dates will never happen though as it's logistically impossible.
If schools 'promoted' students on ability, rather than merely just being a year older, then that might sort the logistics. So, for example, you can only progress from Year 9 to Year 10 if you are Year-10-ready; otherwise you repeat Year 9 until you are ready. Or until you get to <insert some age here> where we all accept that you have reached your own personal pinnacle and you are never going to be Oxbridge material.

Imagine a concept of single-sex schools...

I’ve worked with lots of trades practitioners while involved in vocational education. IMO they are no more likely to be sexist and misogynistic than any other set of men.
The worst examples of sexist and misogynistic men I have met have been in academia, and the worst single example a Professor of Philosophy.

I think a lot of girls are too - they’re just socialised not to act on it.

Learning and doing hard things can be boring and difficult, even miserable on occasion - that’s life and it’s how the brain and character develop. If people of both sexes don’t learn to do this and suck it up sometimes, we’ll have no doctors, scientists, medical advances , engineers, top rate musicians , artists etc.

Blaming the son for the sins of the father. Particularly surprising as you are a mother to a son too.

It's always struck me that that 11 year old boys have to take the punishment because a 50 year old bloke has benefited from everything. Those boys in school haven't created society and then we're telling them that they're going to have to change it for themselves because they're at fault even though they're children!

This manosphere nonsense has really developed from boys being told that it's all their fault from people like middle-aged men like Kier Starmer who benefited from everything, pulled up the draw-bridge behind him, and refused to cede his benefits.

It’s funny because in my very privileged middle class life I’ve found all the tradesmen I’ve had the privilege of having in my home or otherwise interacted with to be intelligent, respectful, courteous and even chivalrous. It’s men in my profession I’ve had the most trouble with over the years.. !

That said, I’ve always gone by the principle of get your good workman to recommend another tradesman - has always worked well.

@EssexLoungerI don’t understand your post. Men have always controlled and benefited most, as women have taken their own path they have been left behind. Young men can change this., huw am I blaming them?

As regards single sex schools I’m afraid my experience of the young men these churn out is not good at all. Not all of them obviously but definitely an arrogance and sexist. This is why I didn’t send my son to one.

I agree. But the building site 'culture' of misogyny and predjudice is a lot more vocal and visible on a daily basis. The tradesman that are not like this have clearly just learnt to tolerate it and keep quiet. I think young men must struggle to navigate this dynamic when they have just left school and been taught about equality and respect. What an eye opener to the world of shit men!

In the last two weeks I have had a tradesman refer to my boombox as a 'wogbox', had a scaffolder with his hands down his pants fiddling around for 5 minutes whilst watching me get my shopping out the car and seen the same scaffolders all stop work and watch the teen girls as they walk home from school along our road.

The tradesmen that operate alone (plumbers, electricians etc) are usually impeccable within the home. I too have got some brilliant one's.

It's the building site dynamic that is the problem. And this is where most young people learn their trade. It must simply put them off.

Bloody hell, where did you find these leftovers?

Another part of the issue is that boys tend to overestimate their abilities, girls underestimate. Years of socialisation that boys are “better” and girls need to sit down and be quiet. Boys are good at maths and science, girls like reading.

so boys are less likely to put the effort in because they think they will do well without it.

this is also seen in the workplace. Men will apply for jobs they are not qualified for. Women won’t apply unless they meet every criteria.

i would argue it’s not just education. We need to go right back and stop with the “girly girl” and “big brave boy” stereotypes. We made strides in the 70’s, but seem to have regressed since.

I sort of like this until I think about how bored I was with maths at primary school. Not challenging enough for me so I didn't do any of it.

I agree, nothing new. The problem is that nothing changes. IMO, our current education system fails the majority of children. There is no appetite for change or improvement.
I am thankful my children are now adults. They have decided not to have children, which saddens me, but I understand their reasons.

Start young - boys need to run around a lot more. This is about SOME schools not all. Primary and infant schools still take away playtime as a punishment = madness. 5/6 is far too young for most boys to sit down all day, they should be in school but it needs to involve a lot more physicality. Boys not allowed to pay football as they dominate the playground - then have different play times. Rough games and activities need to be actively encouraged for those children who want them, boys or girls. We have made education passive which works well for many children, mostly girls.
In secondary, we need to keep up with games and activities. More male teachers and clear, guidelines and consequences. Most boys like and benefit from robust, clear authority. English, books with adventures and excitement rather than focus on internal monologues and introspection. Shakespeare, taught well, is brilliant for boys and those seeking thrills.

Many girls who or neurodivergent would love this type of education, rules, action, focus. Discussing emotions, over analysing actions, one to one heart to hearts in stuffy rooms with lavender curtains do not work for many. We need to have options.

These are tradespeople contracted by the local council to rescue a nearby house that partially collapsed.