1961 women's employment - wow!

[ifIwerenotanandroid]

Someone found this letter in a house she bought, & posted it on X. I've never seen anything like that before.

This is why we should all listen to the generations who came before us: we may think we know what's what, but history can always surprise us. I've been amused by posters on X claiming this weekend that there have never been communal changing rooms for women in the UK & that no teenage girls ever went shopping with their friends for fun. As a member of the biddy mafia I know they're wrong but they're quite insistent, even the men.

It’s sobering, isn’t it? I was born in 1961, and rode the crest of the wave of equality won by our foremothers without realising for an embarrassingly long time.
My parents were teachers - mum had stopped working when they married (I’m not sure if she had the choice?) but with the shortage of teachers she was begged to return as soon as I turned 5. So my norm was equality, with dad cheerfully picking up his share of the household tasks, as did my older brothers. I’d no idea this wasn’t yet commonplace! And I didn’t really think about why so very few, if any, other girls did physics and chemistry for O and A level, or double maths. Didn’t realise when I got my bank account - complete with a Barclaycard! when I headed to uni in 1979 that this was in any way novel.

Strangely enough my school did have a decent attitude towards maths, and expected everyone in the sixth form to have it already or retake if they didn't.

There were still communal changing rooms in the 90’s. Top shop in particular.

There was a national policy of sacking women from any jobs a man wanted, because women had taken over 'men's work' in the war, and the men should have priority on employment, post-war.

We once went to a pub on the Harrow Road which solved this problem by not having a womens toilet. We only went once!

Always wondered if they included War Widows trying to support their children in that

One reason I favour single sex education at secondary, is that no one ever questioned whether girls could do maths or sciences. A lot of our teachers were 2nd wave feminists, and didn't doubt our abilities as a group.

yeah - it was very demoralising to my mum that she only got to keep about £2.50 of the £15 a week/7 hour (+unpaid lunch) Saturday job she had with the Probation Service supervising teenagers sentenced to community service.

It kept a lot of women out of the workforce as it was not worth their while to work and get taxed at their husband's marginal rate.

I went to an all girls grammar as well. When it came to choosing Universities we were all told to apply for Teacher Training as well, “just in case”. Probably good advice since we were never told how we were doing academically, or advised how to improve or given information to help us to choose suitable courses. Exam results in my school were always a complete surprise! Three very bright girls in my year wanted to try for Oxbridge, the silence was deafening. They were determined however and all three were eventually offered places, The History Girls it wasn’t.

The only career Talk from outside the school we had was a spokesperson from Barclays Bank who waxed lyrical about how in the future computers were going to make a bank cashiers life so exciting. I say spokesperson, he was a man. No mention of career progression for women, it was cashier or nothing .

Looking back the lack of advice, help, and ambition from our teachers was depressing. We did however have a very smart uniform and strict rules about not eating in the street while wearing it.

No. Unmarried, single,divorced or deserted or widowed women, or women carers for older or disabled relatives, even if they were the sole supporters, did not need to earn a 'family wage'. War widows did have high status and a pension. But it was not to support them and their children, because it would end the moment the widow was discovered to have a new boyfriend: He would be assumed to be paying for sex, therefore keeping her. He would also be assumed to be paying for however many orphaned children she had. If the new relationship did not work out, she would not be able to resume the status and pension of being a war widow.

Yes - I remember that many pubs were divided into 2 sections the "saloon bar" and the "lounge bar" and women were only allowed in the lounge.

1982: a judge telling a rape victim she was guilty of contributory negligence because of the clothes she'd been wearing

I remember that. Then there was also a judge who said a man who raped his eight year old daughter when his wife was pregnant had just been behaving like a ‘red blooded man’. And sometime in about 1983
a programme about Reading Police showed the whole country a monstrous way of dealing with a woman who complained she had been raped.

Ditto, ditto, ditto. I was so lucky. My parents were both extremely keen that my brother and I should get the educational opportunities they hadn't had, just as their parents had been. Mum and Dad were both able to stay on at school to the point of taking Highers, which was the most education anyone in their families had ever had, but at that point there were no maintenance grants and you had to be absolutely stellar to get a scholarship to university, so that was out of the question for both of them. They were so proud that both my brother and I were able to get degrees.

I went to a girls' school. We had a smart uniform (green) and eating in the street was strongly discouraged, but unlike @viques my school was really strong academically and alumnae moved on to a wide range of careers. Almost all staff were women and graduates or equivalent in the subjects they taught, so we had good role models and excellent teaching. We had exams twice a year and were pushed to do as well as we possibly could. Half my year did science and Maths A levels. Most of us went on to university, including several to Oxford and Cambridge, and most of the rest to poly, art college or some form of vocational training. I thought this was normal. When I got a Saturday job at 14/15 and chatted to other girls of my age, I found I was very wrong. I could see they were bright, capable girls, better at the work than I was, but they were aiming for a few CSEs at most. In later life I've met other women my age who also massively underachieved at school. What a waste.

And there’s still a marked discrepancy in the uptake of most STEM subjects by girls between single sex and mixed sex schools.

But what year was this. I understood that men and women could elect to be separately assessed for tax if they were married. I think men had to forego the married man's allowance and there was a breakeven point. My mother always worked and I have no recollection that she only got x amount because dad's tax rate prevailed.

Many professions were closed to women. Grammar school places were limited to a small number.

Mostly, families refused to allow girls to take grammar school places if offered, because it might mean more costly uniforms and equipment, and, worse, might lead to the child not leaving school and starting earning, aged 15. The girls were not worth educating, because they couldn't have careers, anyway, and because they would get married. In the unlikely event of one becoming a 'career woman' she would have lost her worth to the family anyway, because she would not be available to do her duty by looking after the parents in old age.

Many university colleges were closed to women. A woman who, unusually, had managed to qualify as a solicitor, could not break through the sexism in the profession, so she set up her own practice, which thrived. But one day she decided to hire a television. (They were not available for purchase, when they first appeared, because they repeatedly broke down.) She had to get her father to co-sign the documents.

IIRC I think it was around 1969/1970 - a year or so before separate assessment

In 1980 I required a guarantor already banking with Barclays to open a bank account with them. It happened to be my dad but it wasn't imperative that a man sign to allow me (a mere teenager) an account.

I went in with my sons to open their accounts in much the same way, although I wasn't a guarantor.

Thanks for that - I didn't realise this was why Thames Valley Police suddenly became the flagship for intelligent policing of sex-related crimes!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09lqp6t

Exceptions for trousers were fashionable rather than usually accepted for work.

Hipster bell bottoms worn with a wide belt were fashionable at one point in the ‘60s. People hoped to be thin enough for their hip bones to show and jut forward. And in the ‘70s there were dainty trouser suits of flowery material. A very new look was brought by ‘Annie Hall’ with Diane Keaton wearing over sized men’s trousers and a waistcoat (about 1977).

Teachers at school used to wear suits or sheath dresses with matching jackets. They were very smart.

I was born in 1958 and very clearly saw why women's rights are so precious and need to be fought for.
My mum was born in 1936, her only real option was to get married and she had four kids by 23, she was so grateful when married women were allowed the contraceptive pill in the early 60's. My dad never told her how much he earned, wouldn't give her enough house-keeping money then left her in the lurch with 4 kids. Only in the 70's could she become independent by getting a office job and learning to drive.
When I was at school girls could not do woodwork, metalwork or play football and no trousers allowed, we had to wear skirts and baggy green knickers for hockey!. School careers advice was limited to nurse, teacher and office job but I got a cleaning job.
After watching what happened to my mum I vowed never to have kids so I could be totally independent but I was so lucky that the Sex Discrimination Act came out a year after I left school and I was able to work my way to a good career. I also did woodwork at evening class and made a lot of my own furniture.
I got my first mortgage in 1984 purely on own but even then all correspondence was addressed to my none-existent husband.
And yes, going round the shops with friends on a saturday morning with friends was a regular feature and yes there were communal changing rooms in most clothes shops.
But what was definitely better was that if a man came in the ladies loo or changing rooms you could scream blue murder and he would automatically be arrested!

Among couples who met at university and intended to stay together, it was considered vital that the woman underperformed in order not to have a better degree than the man whose ego would matter to her for the rest of her life.

I now feel I also rode the crest of the wave! I went to an all girls grammar school (I left school in 1986) and felt they were primarily interested in those who were staying on to do A levels and going on to uni! IIRC we all had to take biology O level and at least one other science, or maybe two. It was quite an academic school but we did only have home economics (which despite not being very domesticated myself, I’m glad we learnt the basics of cooking and sewing), no metalwork or woodwork, unlike the equivalent boys’ school and I remember it being quite the topic of conversation that we couldn’t do it too.
I recall Chelsea Girl changing their changing rooms to communal and I think I remember feeling that the general consensus was that it wasn’t popular.
My grandmother was in the Civil Service and I’m sure it was said that she kept her marriage a secret so she could stay on.
My mum was a teacher and I remember her being annoyed that she wasn’t allowed to wear trousers. She also was asked by an electrical shop for her husband’s permission to buy something on credit, she was so angry that she went and drew out the full amount to pay for it.
My mum, and her mum, were quite the feminists and feisty, though and so that’s how I was raised.
I had no problem getting a bank account but then again, my first proper job (when I open my first account) was in a bank. I was still with them (not working for them, just bank account) when I got my first mortgage (solo).
My last proper job, despite being a male orientated industry, were very keen to take on women and promote them.
Believe it or not, my first negative encounter was last year, when buying a car, the salesman said something along the lines of: are all interested parties in agreement with you buying it! He got short shrift and lost the sale!

Boilleaux! My mother went to grammar school in 1947! I went to the same one in 1971. We both went because the grammar school offered a better and more academic education than the local private school where we both went from 7 to 11.

"Almost 3 million wives (just under half of all wives on whose income tax is charged) will have less tax charged on their income, because they will have their own personal allowance and their income will no longer be taxed as if it belonged to their husband. These changes remove the tax penalty on marriage because the tax payable on a married woman's income will now never exceed—as it could previously—the tax payable by a single woman on the same income."

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1990-07-11/debates/6f8f9eac-354f-4a86-bc5e-bcb3b4e0a066/IndependentTaxation