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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Excellent from Trevor Phillips

135 replies

Theeyeballsinthesky · 22/05/2026 13:31

Oh he gets it

x.com/trevorptweets/status/2057780825148490016?s=46

OP posts:
Foodgloriousfoodie · 22/05/2026 15:45

Sidebeforeself · 22/05/2026 15:30

Well my parents have passed too but I’m still a daughter. I think you are looking for something that isn’t there. He’s just trying to make the point that the safety of women and girls is the central point when it comes to discussing single sex spaces .., not a bit of fuss about loos.

I didn’t take all that from that from the first paragraph

rather than looking for something I am curious about why I felt the way I did when I read that bit - I definitely felt something marked before I read on

he put a dash after women which to me is further defining what you’ve just said - like a colon - so it kind of felt like a list of what women were

in contrast to you I don’t identify with being a daughter now my parents have passed - it was one of the things to grieve but I do accept you still feel like one

spannasaurus · 22/05/2026 15:46

We men need to hear their voices.

He was talking to men and saying these aren't random women they're your mothers, daughters, wives and sisters.

My mum's dead but I'm still her daughter

Foodgloriousfoodie · 22/05/2026 15:57

spannasaurus · 22/05/2026 15:46

We men need to hear their voices.

He was talking to men and saying these aren't random women they're your mothers, daughters, wives and sisters.

My mum's dead but I'm still her daughter

When he spoke about/to the men I notice he didn’t say “fathers sons brothers and husbands” just “we men” as a distinct social and political category

I think that’s what has irked me - it comes across as paternalistic that he went on to list women relationally to others and not just as women

and given he is a man involved as he said in writing/amending the equality act he speaks of I think it’s an important nuance to note

none of us are beyond unconscious bias’

thank you!!! I’ve solved it for me

Duckyfondant · 22/05/2026 16:02

Lots of men that care do see this issue in relation to the women they personally love and care about. I think he's right to appeal to that instinct on this occasion

Sidebeforeself · 22/05/2026 16:07

Duckyfondant · 22/05/2026 16:02

Lots of men that care do see this issue in relation to the women they personally love and care about. I think he's right to appeal to that instinct on this occasion

I agree and if this approach helps more men “get it” then thats fine with me.

Shortshriftandlethal · 22/05/2026 16:21

In Full:

"My thoughts on the EHRC guidance laid yesterday; this is not about non-existent "rights". It is about the safety of women - mothers, sisters, wives, daughters. We men need to hear their voices. Virginia Woolf : "Though we see the same world, we see it through different eyes".

Yesterday: Where I live there are two different routes to and from the tube station. One, let’s call it Acacia Avenue, is quiet and residential. The other, London Road, is a busy major route with lots of traffic. At all times of the day, I automatically head for Acacia Road. It’s just much nicer. The women in my family, on the other hand, will never willingly make that walk after dark. They live with an anxiety that most men find it hard to imagine, and frankly, rarely think about unprompted. Last year 739,000 women were sexually assaulted in Britain. Virtually all such assaults - nine out of ten - are perpetrated by men. One in four women have been attacked at some time in their lives. Acacia Avenue is exactly the sort of place in which most women fear that they become vulnerable, and they are right.

As the author Virginia Woolf once wrote " Though we see the same world, we see it through different eyes". I think this is the right context in which to understand the furore over the guidance being laid today by the government, over the meaning of the words man and woman when it comes to providing services and facilities in workplaces. Many men think this is about a rather arcane dispute about who gets to use what loo. For their mothers, sisters, wives and daughters, it isn’t. In a previous life, as Chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, I had a hand in writing this country’s equality laws, in particular the 2010 Equality Act. It never occurred to any of us that there could be any confusion or dispute over the meaning of the words man and woman. But it has taken a decade of campaigning, a Supreme Court judgement and now hundreds of pages of guidance to settle the issue.

This is not about so called trans rights, which are completely unaffected by this guidance, since no-one has ever had the right to walk into a changing room reserved for teenage girls. What it does mean is that women and girls are guaranteed the protection they deserve, and that their safety, which we spent half a decade drafting law to ensure, is protected. But the whole business illuminates some serious issues in our politics. First that many of our institutions, in spite of the fact that they always knew what the right thing to do was, decided to ignore the fears of their women customers and employees, under pressure from noisy pressure groups. Instead, the people who were supposed to be the grown ups behaved as though the law said what campaigners wanted it to say, rather than what it actually said. They settled for what they hoped would be a quiet life.

In a democracy, there’s little point in Parliament deciding anything if the law is then made an ass by activists intimidating bosses in companies, schools, universities and the media into doing something different. Second, at the heart of the campaign to undermine the Equality Act is an idea that we specifically rejected in 2010, so called self-identification. That is to say, that it should be up to the individual to decide whether they have what’s called a protected characteristic - are you male or female, are you black or white. The problem is that self-ID would destroy the operation of any law against discrimination. Look, it would almost certainly have been to my advantage as a young man to self-identify as a handsome, white public schoolboy. None of those things is true of me. And at various points I am pretty sure it’s been to my disadvantage. It is certainly statistically likely to have been to my disadvantage.

But according to the logic of those who say that self-ID should be the rule and that anyone should be able to decide for themselves whether they are male or female, black or white or Asian, were I to complain about racial discrimination, it would be difficult for anyone prove that I’d been discriminated against because of my race since anybody to whom I’d lost out could just tell the courts that they too were black. I know that sounds like Alice in Wonderland but you can google the case where a chap, both of whose parents are white, insisted he should get money from the Arts Council because he so identified with the black struggle that he considered himself black, and everyone should accept his point of view. In the United States and Brazil exactly such outlandish claims have been made and people rewarded to the disadvantage of people actually born into minority families. I have even been told about firms who, when reporting their gender pay gaps have put men who just happen to like wearing dresses at weekends - nothing wrong with that, let me be clear - into the female column and told their women employees that they really haven’t got anything to moan about because statistically they are paid equally, and they should get back in their box.

So today’s guidance isn’t just another tiresome chapter in culture wars. It is , I hope, a halt to the efforts to undermine one of the most important pieces of legislation on the statute book, by people who, for their own reasons, would prefer us to be living in the 1950s world of Mad Men"

Turtlesgottaturtle · 22/05/2026 16:23

Foodgloriousfoodie · 22/05/2026 15:24

I think that’s what struck me - instead of writing about women directly it was as their roles in relation to men

also not all women are in those roles - I don’t currently meet any of those categories - parents now dead

Edited

I think he's addressing men, encouraging them to realise that women see and experience things differently from men (because they are more vulnerable and more likely to be attacked by men) and need single sex spaces. I think that's a great approach.

Shortshriftandlethal · 22/05/2026 16:24

Foodgloriousfoodie · 22/05/2026 14:58

only one thing bothers me about this article - the identification of woman as being mothers wives sisters or daughters - did he need to say that?

He's using it as a device to enable those that cannot imagine that women are real human beings - to picture their own nearest and dearest as someone who is impacted by this issue.

Alistair Campbell and all of the other virtual signalling men, for example.

Shortshriftandlethal · 22/05/2026 16:27

Foodgloriousfoodie · 22/05/2026 15:57

When he spoke about/to the men I notice he didn’t say “fathers sons brothers and husbands” just “we men” as a distinct social and political category

I think that’s what has irked me - it comes across as paternalistic that he went on to list women relationally to others and not just as women

and given he is a man involved as he said in writing/amending the equality act he speaks of I think it’s an important nuance to note

none of us are beyond unconscious bias’

thank you!!! I’ve solved it for me

That many men do feel a protective instinct towards their female relatives is not a crime, or an example of wrong think.

Shortshriftandlethal · 22/05/2026 16:29

Foodgloriousfoodie · 22/05/2026 15:29

yes but for me I don’t see myself as actively in society as a daughter with my parents now being dead

there is something very diminishing for-me about him saying women then listing those roles

this is a man writing too - on a women’s perspective and what it means for them

Edited

I don't see them as roles, but as types of relationship.

TFImBackIn · 22/05/2026 16:33

I'm more than happy with the mention of women being daughters, because don't forget the men who buy babies through surrogacy and then try to deny the mother's existence.

I thought this was a really good piece of writing. I wonder whether Andy or Keir will read it and reflect.

Lottapianos · 22/05/2026 16:38

My gosh, that was so good to read. We need more men like him to share their thoughts publicly in such a clear, passionate and accessible way. Let's face it, they're much more likely to be listened to than us boring old women 🙄

The WHINING on social media today about how heartbreaking and unfair it is for trans people to not be allowed to use any toilets ever. These people honestly don't see GC women as a serious, autonomous adult group of people who have the right to say no, and to have needs and demands of our own

LlynTegid · 22/05/2026 16:39

The sad thing with all this is that the Supreme Court judgment should never have been necessary. The undermining of the law started perhaps ten years or so ago, and the government of the day could have published guidance and/or had a vote in Parliament to say that sex equals biological sex.

Trevor Phillips I met about 20 years ago, indeed he went out of his way to speak to me and the group of people I was with at the time.

PopstarPoppy · 22/05/2026 16:43

Foodgloriousfoodie · 22/05/2026 14:58

only one thing bothers me about this article - the identification of woman as being mothers wives sisters or daughters - did he need to say that?

I read it as him writing from the perspective of a man, outlining why men should be concerned about the topic. Too many men I have come across aren’t ‘that bothered’ because ‘it doesn’t really affect me’.

HoppityBun · 22/05/2026 16:44

RhannionKPSS · 22/05/2026 15:06

Because we women are sisters, wives , mothers , and daughters. We all have or had mothers & grandmothers , I don’t see the problem with his description.

Well it means nothing then, does it? We are our own people. We are not defined by relationships to others. We’re not all wives, mothers and sisters, anyway.

Men are sons, too. FWIW.

FarriersGirl · 22/05/2026 16:45

PopstarPoppy · 22/05/2026 16:43

I read it as him writing from the perspective of a man, outlining why men should be concerned about the topic. Too many men I have come across aren’t ‘that bothered’ because ‘it doesn’t really affect me’.

That is exactly how I heard it. A man clearly explaining the issue to men. I think he is great on lots of topics.

Shortshriftandlethal · 22/05/2026 16:53

PopstarPoppy · 22/05/2026 16:43

I read it as him writing from the perspective of a man, outlining why men should be concerned about the topic. Too many men I have come across aren’t ‘that bothered’ because ‘it doesn’t really affect me’.

Also, for all of those people who loudly and proudly advertise their 'trans rights' credentials, this is just a conceptual, political issue. When an issue is brought closer to home and back to flesh and blood reality one can realise its impacts more readily. Plus, secretly, even the the loudest TRAS know full well what men are like and why women require certain protections or accommodations on account of that.

All of those people who bang on about 'trans rights' most often completely neglect to mention that women and girls are impacted. It is as if they just don't exist, or if they do exist, only as walk on parts in a highly politicised and ideologically motivated debate on 'equality' and 'progressivism'.

Shortshriftandlethal · 22/05/2026 16:55

HoppityBun · 22/05/2026 16:44

Well it means nothing then, does it? We are our own people. We are not defined by relationships to others. We’re not all wives, mothers and sisters, anyway.

Men are sons, too. FWIW.

Surely we just need for people to understand the issue. This is the most important thing. We don't require them to politically correct as well

ThisOneLife · 22/05/2026 16:57

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ThisOneLife · 22/05/2026 16:59

Maybe he could have a word with the waste of space that is Harriet Harman.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/05/2026 17:05

It was good to hear this:
I had a hand in writing this country’s equality laws, in particular the 2010 Equality Act. It never occurred to any of us that there could be any confusion or dispute over the meaning of the words man and woman. But it has taken a decade of campaigning, a Supreme Court judgement and now hundreds of pages of guidance to settle the issue.

What is difficult to understand is why they all did not come forward before to say ‘I was there making the Equality law and this is what was meant by ‘a man’ and by ‘a woman’?

TempestTost · 22/05/2026 17:10

Foodgloriousfoodie · 22/05/2026 15:45

I didn’t take all that from that from the first paragraph

rather than looking for something I am curious about why I felt the way I did when I read that bit - I definitely felt something marked before I read on

he put a dash after women which to me is further defining what you’ve just said - like a colon - so it kind of felt like a list of what women were

in contrast to you I don’t identify with being a daughter now my parents have passed - it was one of the things to grieve but I do accept you still feel like one

What do your feelings have to do with it? You are a daughter, all women are. It's not about feelings, it's materially objectively true.

Whatever your feelings are about having lost your parents, it's not Trevor Phillips responsibility to navigate.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/05/2026 17:10

PopstarPoppy · 22/05/2026 16:43

I read it as him writing from the perspective of a man, outlining why men should be concerned about the topic. Too many men I have come across aren’t ‘that bothered’ because ‘it doesn’t really affect me’.

Yes, that really makes sense.

And he also makes a very neat job of showing how easy it would be to make a complete mess of discrimination law if self-ID is tthe trump.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/05/2026 17:30

I thought it was very powerful. He's always prepared to speak out about injustice. The Labour party suspended him some years ago for alleged Islamophobia when he spoke out about the rape gangs in Northern towns, integration and the proposed definitions of Islamophobia. (they later quietly dropped the charges) One of his daughters lost her life to an eating disorder and he's written powerfully about her and mental illness.
His Sunday morning news programme on Sky is always well worth a listen.

helderste · 22/05/2026 17:31

Foodgloriousfoodie · 22/05/2026 15:45

I didn’t take all that from that from the first paragraph

rather than looking for something I am curious about why I felt the way I did when I read that bit - I definitely felt something marked before I read on

he put a dash after women which to me is further defining what you’ve just said - like a colon - so it kind of felt like a list of what women were

in contrast to you I don’t identify with being a daughter now my parents have passed - it was one of the things to grieve but I do accept you still feel like one

I am curious about why I felt the way I did when I read that bit

I’m sorry your parents have passed. I’m interested in your reaction too, because I noticed that you still identify your parents as your parents although you no longer consider yourself to be their daughter.

My dad is dead but he is still my dad and I am still his daughter.