Ian Dunt and Dorian Lynskey grapple with the idea that feminists, and specifically JKR, find the concept of gender identity sexist.

[nicepotoftea]

https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/2057191752902070412

Not sure if I have the stomach to listen.

Might skim the transcript.

Can't believe that I used to think these men knew what they were talking about back in the days of Brexit threads.

They're obsessed with JKR because they feel threatened by her spreading gender critical views, once you're exposed to them the seed of doubt is planted and our logical capacities finish the rest off. TRAs are authoritarians at their hearts, and it immensely bothers them they can't silence her. The whole ideology relies on ignoring rational thought, and if you can't ignore it, you attack it.

I remember enjoying Dorien Lynsey's music journalism in various books and magazines, back in the mists of time. Ah well, yet another one to be disappointed by.

Incidentally, I heard Helen Joyce once describe on a podcast how she'd received lots of social media carping and criticism from a particular person. She didn't name them but said a friend had told her the person had a trans child - that being the reason they were so "all in" on gender identity.

I can't remember why, but I got the impression (after a bit of digging around) that it was DL.

I've just listen to it.

They go through JKR life before potter, how successful the books were, early feminism reactions to men who think they are women, British laws around trans genderism and then JKR tweets about TRA. MN gets a mention.

Theres some funny dramatic reactions. When Maya Forstater calls Pip Bruce a man in a dress, one of them says something like 'good God' as if its the worse thing hes ever heard.

As with most allies, they can see its madness for a rapist to be a women prison, but they don't follow that thought through to, if not convicted, they would be happy to allow the same man into womens public toilets and changing rooms.

They think a flaw in the analysis is that men are accused of misogyny for transitioning, and girls involved are accused of internalised misogyny. I thought they were going to say 'you can't have it both ways, ladies'.

The general feeling i get from them is that they think the GC side is obsessed about something that has little to do with them.

Its part one. But I dont think I'll rush to hear the rest.

Also, they talked about the abuse JKR suffered in her first marriage, but seemed more horrified by her husband destroying her writing than harming her physically. I just listened rather than watched, so that might have made a difference.

Wouldn't it be nice to ask these chaps a few questions like "where did WPATH come from?" or "what are the Denton documents?" or "what do you understand about autogynaephilia?"
Why are these questions never asked of the media loveys?

Tbh i no longer care what men think about the "trans" sh*tshow, I've realised that even decent men don't get how infuriating it is for women to be made invisible, to have the words "mothers", "breastfeeding" being disappeared, and the nonsensical view that men can somehow magically become women. It's as even the best of them just can't seem to view us as complete human beings deserving of equal respect. I honestly think most men think we are a different species from them, and no argument will change that. So I'm really only interested in hearing from women who have a problem with the transmisogyny men's right movement from now on. We should takeva leaf from the BLM playbook and refuse to listen to men's opinions on whether women should be allowed rights or not.

.

Thanks for watching so I don't have to .. I really don't want to give them the clicks. It never enters their head that they're the ones who've been radicalised does it. I use to really like them both, bought their books and everything. Avid listener of Remainics. DL said once on X he had a trans child. He's Helen Joyces Japanese solder. Wankers the pair of them.

These wankers calling a woman a "thing", and they think she's the problem.

Framing is also disingenuous. JKR did not join twitter, get obsessed with cancel culture, and start caring about women's rights as a result of that. That's them trying to code her as conservative. It was very much the other way round iirc.

When you hear men like this discussing the gender issue, whatever they say always boils down to one thing: utter incredulity that women are daring to say no to men. They think that women should let men have whatever men want and are genuinely baffled that women refuse.

That explains their over-the-top reaction to very mild evidence that they categorised as transphobic. They even appeared to be outraged that some women in 2018 wore badges stating 'Radicalised by Mumsnet'.

Little to do with ID and DL or little to do with women?

I have Dunt’s book about Brexit and found it readable and clear - but if he can’t understand how the removal of sex from the EA would affect women, is he clueless on trade regulations too, and was it all just a load of bollocks?

Its such a cop out though.
I have a trans family member and both of us are GC.
Because both of us recognise that gender stereotypes are sexist, biology is innate and sex is not changeable.

Still haven’t listened yet, but I wonder if they acknowledge that she was offending people on Twitter years before she said anything about gender - it was just that the people she offended were Scottish Nationalists/Brexiters/right wing/Corbynites, not ‘people like us’.

This basically

ive no interest in what they have to say because it's the same stuff we've heard eleventy billion times before - be kind, how does it hurt you?, of course rapists shouldn't be in women's prisons but....,

they're so secure in there smug right think with all their RSOH smug social circle friends , that it wouldn't occur to them to have JKR there to discuss it (even if she would) or Helen Joyce or Maya Forstater. I mean they might say things they consider unkind, the horror!!

they can't fathom women saying no, they can't be bothered to understand why and you know they are itching to call us shrill & hysterical

Cocks

Good old Ian Rhyming Slang

How can they believe transwomen are women, but that they shouldn't be in a women's prison? What do they actually believe?

I wonder if they have noticed that the debate has moved on, and they are patching together a sane position. Of course they don't support men in women's prisons, or sports, or childhood transition, or sacking people for misgendering, but they still support trans rights, in some abstract sense, which makes them not a bigot and a better person than you.

In my experience these types never acknowledge or explore the gaping holes in their logic.

I just got a flashback to an old Goon Show episode about ' The Japanese Army in That Tree'. Ian and Dorian might still be up in That Tree , waiting for a message from the Emperor. But I think Corporal Jones might sneak off saying something like ' I'm just going to get help....'

PS I had the Goons on an LP. Not quite old enough to have heard the original broadcast.

@Bertiebiscuit
Tbh i no longer care what men think about the "trans" shtshow, I've realised that even decent men don't get how infuriating it is for women to be made invisible, to have the words "mothers", "breastfeeding" being disappeared, and the nonsensical view that men can somehow magically become women.
Sadly, I think you are right. DH thinks the whole trans thing is bonkers, but seemed completely mystified by my fairly low-level shitting fit on the day of the Giggle vs Tickle judgement.

'Governments are always putting through laws they have to refine later...'
'They were fucking told this was going to be a massive problem!'
'Yes, but they always ignore advice too, it's just how the system'-
'WAS THIS NOT OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WITH TWO BRAIN CELLS TO RUB TOGETHER?'

Apparently not, no.
Probably, IMHO, because it was women who were doing the telling.

Ironically, the thing it reminds me of most is Boris Johnson's attitude towards the NI border.

It's the same irritation that anyone should dare to insist on reality based policies and legislation.

Gender ideology makes about as much sense as a Goon Show plot, without any of the humour….

I think you’re right. A lot of people were taken aback by his comments, I remember them being mentioned on here before. Once you know why it all makes sense.

What is their opinion on toilets? I have found dads of daughters are more vocal about their daughters not going into the men’s by advocating for mixed sex toilets. I haven’t got much information about dads of sons.

Edit: I don’t know which sex the child is but for the ones I do know in the public domain, it seems to follow a pattern of the Dad being protective.

Lynskey definitely has a "trans" child. Do you remember when that clip was circulating in which Helen Joyce talked about how parents who had transed their children would be the very last people to see sense on this issue, because they would never be able to admit to themselves the harm they'd done? At the time that was doing the rounds, Lynskey tweeted it with a comment that Joyce was "wicked". In doing so, of course, he proved the exact point she was making.

The Irish border analogy is an interesting one. Long after it became very clear the legal issue was a complicated one, people from the UK, including politicians and public servants were continuing a narrative of - 'the EU is on the other side of the Channel, we can manage our own ports' - ignoring the 310 mile stretch where you can stand with one foot in the UK and one in the EU.

Reality is irrelevant to them.

Little to do with ID and DL or little to do with women?

Little to do with women.

Their attitude was very standard for male trans allies in that they didn't question trans ideology at all.

They stated that the British process for obtaining a GRC is one of the toughest in Europe, the EqA included PC of GR, mentioned sex and gender, and gender identity. But didn't delve into what exactly transgender is.

They acknowledged that conflict between inclusive and non inclusive feminism has existed for a long time, but didnt investigate why. They just quoted some academic feminist, and were dismissive of MN and twitter. Its as if they saw feminism as something to be written about as theory and not lived by every women.

Even when they touch upon referrals to children's gender clinics they didnt appreciate that mothers would thinking about safeguarding.