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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Starmer - should he stay or should he go? What difference would it make either way?

155 replies

IwantToRetire · 12/05/2026 18:08

Four ministers resign over Starmer leadership as Lammy says no-one has support to stand against PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

More than 100 Labour MPs have signed a statement urging Sir Keir Starmer not to stand down
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/starmer-resign-cabinet-live-updates-b2974932.html

More than 100 Labour MPs sign statement against Starmer leadership challenge
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/12/labour-mps-sign-statement-against-starmer-leadership-challenge

Four ministers resign over Starmer leadership as Lammy says no-one has support to stand against PM

Zubir Ahmed follows Jess Phillips and two other ministers in quitting government. Meanwhile more than 100 Labour MPs are understood to have signed a statement backing the PM.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

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OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 17/05/2026 13:31

Pingponghavoc · 17/05/2026 13:06

The problem Labour have is that they want to govern with the hand they want, not the one they have.

Everything would be perfect if Brexit didn't happen, multiculturalism was working, and the working class stayed quiet and happy with their middle class vision.

In any analysis of voters, especially working class ones, its clear that they mistrust all politicians. They are giving reform their vote in the hope they are different to Lab/cons rather than with the expectation that they are. The analysis is that if Reform fail, voters aren't returning to lab/cons, they will go elsewhere.

Its the same with the younger studenty vote - they can see Labour isn't working. They listen to Greens talking about housing and financial inequality and are lending them their vote.

Labour aren't critical of the green voters because praying that these voters will eventually get the middle class jobs they are promised and return to Labour. Big ask when they are doing nothing to help them even get on the career ladder.

For some reason, Labour are happy to paint the older working class as easily led - stupid for voting brexit and Reform, maybe because they know they arent getting them back. But is a 30 year old graduate still working in tesco ever going to vote Labour either?

I suspect Reform is built around Farage, and if he steps down, the party is dead. And the same is true for the Greens. But that doesnt mean these people will be voting Labour.

This ought to be a full Times article.

Particularly the first sentence, a headline all by itself.

mrshoho · 17/05/2026 13:34

Pingponghavoc · 17/05/2026 13:06

The problem Labour have is that they want to govern with the hand they want, not the one they have.

Everything would be perfect if Brexit didn't happen, multiculturalism was working, and the working class stayed quiet and happy with their middle class vision.

In any analysis of voters, especially working class ones, its clear that they mistrust all politicians. They are giving reform their vote in the hope they are different to Lab/cons rather than with the expectation that they are. The analysis is that if Reform fail, voters aren't returning to lab/cons, they will go elsewhere.

Its the same with the younger studenty vote - they can see Labour isn't working. They listen to Greens talking about housing and financial inequality and are lending them their vote.

Labour aren't critical of the green voters because praying that these voters will eventually get the middle class jobs they are promised and return to Labour. Big ask when they are doing nothing to help them even get on the career ladder.

For some reason, Labour are happy to paint the older working class as easily led - stupid for voting brexit and Reform, maybe because they know they arent getting them back. But is a 30 year old graduate still working in tesco ever going to vote Labour either?

I suspect Reform is built around Farage, and if he steps down, the party is dead. And the same is true for the Greens. But that doesnt mean these people will be voting Labour.

My 2 kids currently at uni, both very different characters but united in their support of the Green party. They don't see immigration or gender identity as an issue. One is more open to discussion the other not at all.

EasternStandard · 17/05/2026 13:37

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 17/05/2026 13:31

This ought to be a full Times article.

Particularly the first sentence, a headline all by itself.

Yes agree too. People happily are too democratic and unbiddable so they’ll have to try and lead rather than control.

Leading and persuading is much harder, especially for the current person.

Pingponghavoc · 17/05/2026 13:46

Few people are saying Reform are a working class movement. The argument is that reform are appealing to the working class in a way that Labour are not.

The question is, do Labour even want the working class vote?

Polls are indicating that anyone other than Andy Burnham has no chance of winning the by-election for Labour. So if Burnham wins and becomes PM, his whole cabinet will be made up of politicians who couldn't win an election in a working class seat in the North West.

IwantToRetire · 18/05/2026 02:54

I think the problem is party members of all parties are delusional.

Its quite possible that the party system never worked but in the past before social media or even when there were only 2 tv channels, there wasn't this endles chit chat and personality drivel.

There were headlines about some change in say Tax, or new Traffic regulations, and those people who were impacted either way would remember that as a plus or minus in terms of the next GE.

But with the growth of mass media, first tv then sm we get an endless diet of quite honestly irrelevant stuff by media air heads who have to fill their time slot.

And nearly all of it isn't about the nitty gritty of people's lives, eg why pot holes are a genuinely big issue. Because the parties now live in the media world. They are trying to catch the eye of whichever media pundit they think will have influence.

So on one level this is also why Brexist was, still is so important, because ordinary people were part of making the decision.

And then it went wrong, and instead of saying maybe we the voting public were too gullible or didn't ask the right questions, the politicians are again shown to be incompetent or not keeping their promises. Rather than the fact that the voters excepte false promises.

Obviously people who experience the ongoing downward spiral of the UK (which probably no politician can solve) more than others ie "the working class" are more likely to be anti which ever party is in Government at the time. In the last century the traditional working class vote was in fact Tory. Just because original labour was seen as the product of the trade union movement didn't mean it was seen as suporting the working class.

So their Tory vote swung to Labour when it turned out (MacMillan) "you've never had it so good" obviously hadn't "trickled down" to the working class.

So taking a punt on Reform to make it better for them is more a rejection of the 2 major parties because in the past century they have been in power and what have they done for the working class.

So I think Labour (or even Tories) thinking they can some regain trust or crediblity isn't about this or that policy, but about the fact neither party has improved for the long term and continuing those at the bottom end of the wage market.

The problem is no one who is committed to politics (which on one level should be the basis on excluding them from politics because it is their hobby) is going to be brave enough to stand back as say lets just stop and really look at issue and how, if at all they can be solved.

The party games of party politics means we are just the outsiders to a game where people are obsessed with their world, not the reality of how life is lived.

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