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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Starmer - should he stay or should he go? What difference would it make either way?

155 replies

IwantToRetire · 12/05/2026 18:08

Four ministers resign over Starmer leadership as Lammy says no-one has support to stand against PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

More than 100 Labour MPs have signed a statement urging Sir Keir Starmer not to stand down
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/starmer-resign-cabinet-live-updates-b2974932.html

More than 100 Labour MPs sign statement against Starmer leadership challenge
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/12/labour-mps-sign-statement-against-starmer-leadership-challenge

Four ministers resign over Starmer leadership as Lammy says no-one has support to stand against PM

Zubir Ahmed follows Jess Phillips and two other ministers in quitting government. Meanwhile more than 100 Labour MPs are understood to have signed a statement backing the PM.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1e2n923v1lt

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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PrettyDamnCosmic · 16/05/2026 09:09

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/05/2026 08:54

Does there have to be a mayoral byelection style contest if Burnham resigns?

Burnham doesn't have to resign as mayor to be able to stand as an MP.

JustSpeculation · 16/05/2026 10:58

PrettyDamnCosmic · 16/05/2026 09:09

Burnham doesn't have to resign as mayor to be able to stand as an MP.

Yes. From the electoral commission website:

If you are successfully elected as the combined authority mayor where the combined authority mayor takes on the functions of the police [fire] and crime commissioner and you subsequently become a member of the House of Commons, the Scottish Parliament, the Senedd, the Northern Ireland Assembly or any legislature outside the UK, you are automatically disqualified from holding office as a combined authority mayor and the office of combined authority mayor would become vacant.

SionnachRuadh · 16/05/2026 11:24

That's how it was for Tracy Brabin, who had to stand down as MP for Batley on being elected West Yorkshire mayor.

Although I don't think he has to stand down as mayor in advance of being a by-election candidate - that would only kick in if he wins the seat. If he doesn't win he can still go on being mayor.

The need to have a replacement candidate for mayor lined up is to reassure the party that they wouldn't be going into a mayoral election with some random numpty as their candidate.

moto748e · 16/05/2026 12:19

Wiganites are an odd bunch. They still give their address as Lancashire, because they don't recognise themselves as belonging to Greater Manchester.

Oi! I'm sitting right here!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/05/2026 12:44

PrettyDamnCosmic · 16/05/2026 09:09

Burnham doesn't have to resign as mayor to be able to stand as an MP.

I imagine he would have to if he was chosen to replace Starmer.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/05/2026 12:47

So anyway, my point was at some point there might have to be a change of mayor and will that force a byelection and pp have confirmed that it would, thank you.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 16/05/2026 12:49

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/05/2026 12:44

I imagine he would have to if he was chosen to replace Starmer.

If he is elected as an MP then he will automatically be disqualified from being Manchester mayor. It's not because being a mayor is incompatible with being an MP but the mayor of Manchester also includes the office of a police & crime commissioner. You cannot be an MP & police & crime commissioner. Most mayors are not police & crime commissioners only the large metro mayors like London.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 16/05/2026 12:50

moto748e · 16/05/2026 12:19

Wiganites are an odd bunch. They still give their address as Lancashire, because they don't recognise themselves as belonging to Greater Manchester.

Oi! I'm sitting right here!

Surely it is Royal Mail and the postcode database that decides what people in Wigan "give their address as"?

Edit: the same database that requires some people in Cheshire and Shropshire to shamefacedly have to give their address as Stoke-on-Trent?

Pingponghavoc · 16/05/2026 13:11

As long as the postcode is clear, it doesnt matter if people write Wigan or Greater Manchester or both.

SionnachRuadh · 16/05/2026 13:16

All I know is that I'm sitting in part of Essex that only belongs to "Greater London" based on what Ted Heath thought was efficient in the 1960s. So I am in full support of anyone up north who rejects Heathite technocracy.

I predict Andy Burnham will be talking a bit less about the wonders of Manchester over the next month, and will tell us all about his deep love of rugby and pies and George Formby.

mrshoho · 16/05/2026 15:19

Wow Streeting's first speech I'm listening live. Quite honest and passionate. If he could only unite this party and start putting the electorate first gives us hope.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 16/05/2026 19:27

Being able to directly speak to the electorate would be an improvement: Starmer is terrible at that. Inspiration, leadership, yes please. Badly needed. Shared goals. Would be nice.

But the experience of the electorate after the past decade or two is one hell of a lot of burble and performance that isn't backed up by honesty, sincerity or action, and people in there - looks hard at one of two of many recent PMs - who seem to think saying something equates having actually done it, or who says one thing to a crowd at a morning event and then something entirely contradictory to another crowd at an afternoon event, and doesn't seem to see an issue with this. Because being liked and getting what they wanted to achieve in the moment was the goal, not any kind of genuine integrity.

I'm at the Eliza Doolittle stage at this point. 'Don't talk at all. Show me.'

IwantToRetire · 16/05/2026 21:55

UtopiaPlanitia · 16/05/2026 03:01

Saw this article discussing Starmer and his approach to politics recommended on TwiX:

https://x.com/wself/status/2054946706723160363

'Because the important thing about Starmer is not that he is uniquely unpleasant, nor uniquely managerial, nor uniquely hollow. The important thing is that he is the long historical result of a society that has proceduralized itself to the point where procedure no longer mediates trust but replaces it. Starmer is not an aberration within contemporary Britain. He is one of its purest expressions.

This is why the old heuristic of the “good bloke” matters. A good bloke is not simply a nice person. The good bloke belongs to an older and thicker social world: trade union branches, pubs, regiments, chapels, bowling clubs, football terraces, local parties, old Labour wards, Masonic lodges, working men’s institutes. The good bloke may be flawed, even corrupt, but he is legible. You know where he stands. His authority arises from embeddedness.

The nice person, by contrast, emerges from the lower-middle-managerial order: respectable, conscientious, emotionally literate, permanently anxious to appear decent. The nice person follows procedure because procedure has replaced organic trust. The nice person says “I completely understand your concerns” while mentally opening a safeguarding flowchart.
Starmer’s entire political personality oscillates between these two poles. He desperately wants to appear a good bloke while possessing all the sociological characteristics of the nice person. That is the hidden tension visible in every gesture, every speech rhythm, every photograph in which he attempts awkwardly to project ordinariness through rolled-up sleeves, football references or prosecutorial sternness.'

https://nitter.net/wself/status/2054946706723160363 - for those without TwiX account

I think this just isn't right.

I actually thought even though he was dull, and unisteresting and so obviously had a make over, that having been part of the legal profession he would be a bit John Majorist, ie by the book. So none of this mad Boris idiocy.

But it turned out really quite soon that in fact because of who he is in debt too with in the Labour Party, or genuinely feels they are the right sort of Labourites, that he made a total blunder of not knowing or thinking he didn't have to follow an aspect of international law.

I cant remember the ins about outs of it, but he had to appoint a new Attorney General who was outside of politics as it appeared Starmer was in fact more worried about his allies in the Labour Party and chose to ignore legal precedent to please them.

And it wasn't that I wanted to support him, but i just wanted someone you could trust to do the job properly. Not be someone who blows in the wind.

Although maybe this is why he is so useless. He knows in his heart of hearts it cant make decisions, or when he does finds they are wrong because in fact he is still more worried by his core group of Labour allies, and basically sold his soul to the devil - McSweeney.

OP posts:
MsGreying · 16/05/2026 22:50

How did Makerfield vote in the referendum?

Burnham and Streeting both wanting to rejoin the EU.

In the [2016 EU referendum]
In the 2016 EU referendum, the Makerfield constituency voted overwhelmingly to Leave, with an estimated 66% to 68% of voters backing Brexit.(https://www.google.com/search?q=2016+EU+referendum&kgmid=/m/0nfwhxb#sv=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), the [Makerfield](https://www.google.com/search?kgmid=/m/05ytyp) constituency voted overwhelmingly to Leave, with an estimated 66% to 68% of voters backing Brexit. [1, 2]

[1] https://www.facebook.com](https://www.facebook.com/skynews/posts/the-constituency-of-makerfield-has-been-a-labour-safe-seat-for-generations-but-i/1446991734138818/)
[2] https://www.gbnews.com](https://www.gbnews.com/politics/uk/reform-uk-party-makerfield-nigel-fara
ge)

IwantToRetire · 16/05/2026 23:29

Zack Polanski’s party is preparing to stand against the Labour Mayor of Greater Manchester despite warnings that doing so could split the vote and hand victory to Reform
Civil war breaks out in Greens over Andy Burnham - Yahoo News UK

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2026 01:21

I can only imagine who the Greens would put up as a candidate.

Hannah Spencer was a good candidate in terms of her appeal and credibility, not sure they’re going to be able to scrape up another one there.

fanOfBen · 17/05/2026 03:42

Makerfield doesn't sound like the kind of constituency where believing TWAW will chime with voters. Is there any scope for hoping that Burnham will recently have discovered that the Supreme Court ruling isn't confusing after all, and will end up making clear enough statements, during his byelection campaign, that, as PM, he won't be able to act against women's sex-based rights?

UtopiaPlanitia · 17/05/2026 04:29

A long-read article discussing Labour’s approach to successive elections and their approach to dealing with Starmer - I included some excerpts to give an idea of the piece:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2026/05/16/labour-enemies-of-the-people/

Labourites and their legion of media sympathisers are nothing if not delusional, however. They seem to think that the party’s problems boil down to the man at the top: Keir Starmer. Get rid of Starmer, the adenoidal robot, and replace him with someone possessing better ‘communication skills’ and, ideally, a pulse, then hey presto, Labour can reverse its fortunes. ‘The government can get on with delivering the delivery it promised to deliver’, say the Labourites ad infinitum.

But Labour’s crisis is not what its MPs, members and supporters think it is. This is a crisis not of leadership, but of the party as a whole. It doesn’t matter if its members shuffle the ministerial deck, swapping in Angela Rayner, Wes Streeting or Andy Burnham for the wretched Starmer. It doesn’t matter if one or another of these products of the Labour machine tacks ‘left’ or ‘right’. Because this party is done. It is no longer capable, ideologically or organisationally, of speaking for vast swathes of Britain. It is a party whose disdain for the views, values and demands of the nation’s working-class heartlands runs through it like Brighton through a stick of rock. Indeed, it is a party that, having aggressively and stubbornly swum against the populist tide since Brexit, is now slowly but surely being swept away by it.

It turned alignment with the ‘new global market’ into the closest thing it had to a vision, embracing it even as its ‘Third Way’. New Labour was ‘globalist’ before the word was widely recognised. It dreamed of a world reshaped by the unrelenting forces of globalisation, a world of vanishing borders, in which goods, services and people moved ever more freely. A technocratic political universe in which those who knew best, the experts and the NGOs, were allowed to get on with administering the globalising society ‘free from short-term political manipulation’, as Brown once put it. A global order in which nation states were increasingly subordinate to the superior wisdom of transnational institutions, be it the EU or the WTO. New Labour elevated an expert class, a credentialled class, a professional-managerial class, and decommissioned the working class. It empowered transnational actors and lawmakers in the service of global causes, such as the fight against global warming, and disenfranchised British citizen.

In New Labour’s eyes, all this globalisation was synonymous with ‘progress’. And vice versa: opposition to it was seen as backward and reactionary. This, in part, explains why New Labour politicised and weaponised immigration in particular. It didn’t just welcome 2.5million incomers into the UK in little over a decade for economic reasons. It also did so for culture-war reasons. Immigration was the means through which New Labour could give real moralistic content to its project of modernising Britain. The means through which it could transform the country into a globally oriented territory, open for business. The means through which it could realise its ideals of ‘diversity’ and ‘multiculturalism’ in place of older notions of nationhood.

…a new breed of ‘professional’ politician flourished during the New Labour era. Processed and credentialled at Oxbridge or, failing that, at some other Russell Group university, these identikit politicos shared the outlook and values of the broader middle-class graduate class that had fallen hard for New Labour. They usually had no employment experience outside party politics. Rather, they emerged from within the machine, working as researchers, campaigners or parliamentary assistants before, if fortunate, being parachuted into a safe seat somewhere. Andy Burnham, the current pretender to Starmer’s crown, is a prime example.

…Where New Labour embraced the ‘progressive’ thrust of globalism, Corbynistas embraced the ‘progressive’ thrust of identity politics. Both shared an animus towards the attitudes, values and traditions of supposedly unreformed, backward sections of society. They viewed them as something to be overcome, to be changed, to be re-engineered. New Labour went to war against nationhood and tradition. Corbynistas took the ‘progressive’ crusade further and doubled down on sex, gender and race.

…it continues to libel England’s working classes – just as Brown did Gillian Duffy – as bigoted. Indeed, it continues to paint the largely working-class-backed Reform and the wider populist pushback as ‘far right’, proto-fascist or, in Keir Starmer’s recent words, the trailblazers of a ‘very dark path’.
It is this demonisation of the increasingly assertive populist opposition to Labour and the broader political class that is most revealing. Labour is disdaining people’s demands for national and cultural security. It is ignoring their calls for new industries and decent jobs rather than welfare dependency. It is dismissing their profoundly democratic desire for greater control over their lives and their nation.

If Labour thinks that simply putting a new face at the top of the party will quell the populist, largely working-class anger now stirring across the country, it is deeply mistaken.

Labour: enemies of the people

The party that swam against the populist tide is now being swept away by it.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2026/05/16/labour-enemies-of-the-people/

Pingponghavoc · 17/05/2026 09:20

That's a really good article from Spiked.

I see the same attitudes and values within feminist groups, too. Lots of them are living in the middle class ideals of 1997, not the realities of 2026 for the working class.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 17/05/2026 10:25

Or perhaps the realities of 1926 for the German working class?

moto748e · 17/05/2026 11:21

Spiked piece pretty mich put me off with it's first sentence. If you're going to sneer...

And Brexit was still a shit idea. And anyone was right to say so. Many Brexit voters now regret it. There's are many sticks to beat Labour with, but not beinng a fan of Brexit is not one of them. Of course I don't disagree with the broad point about the middle-class managerialism of the LP. But Reform as a working-class movement? Pur-lease.

thirdfiddle · 17/05/2026 12:48

But Reform as a working-class movement? Pur-lease.

This suggests they are getting votes in previously labour-held areas.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-5927b565-a763-459f-b348-759f80689d52

This blog analyses % green and Reform vote in the 2024 election according to demographic factors from the 2021 census:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/who-supports-reform-uk-and-who-the-greens/

Broadly: reform are more successful with older voters and in working-class areas and areas with fewer with degree-level education, greens with younger voters and middle-class areas and a higher proportion of graduates.

If Reform stuck to the Nationalist-Right voters, they wouldn't be half the problem they are. Whether they're hoodwinking voters I'll leave to the reader's opinion, but they are promising tax cuts to lower income families and currently it seems to be working. Maybe so many getting into local government will help them show their true colours before it comes to the next Westminster election.

How Britain's political map has been torn up - BBC News

A visual guide to post-election Britain

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-5927b565-a763-459f-b348-759f80689d52

singthing · 17/05/2026 13:02

Labour are still sticking firmly to their belief that the electorate are just too thick to vote for them. They have no intention of looking inward, and just berate us for it instead.

As regards Starmer, I once heard him described as the guy your mum starts dating after she gets divorced and I have never been able to shake it.

Pingponghavoc · 17/05/2026 13:06

The problem Labour have is that they want to govern with the hand they want, not the one they have.

Everything would be perfect if Brexit didn't happen, multiculturalism was working, and the working class stayed quiet and happy with their middle class vision.

In any analysis of voters, especially working class ones, its clear that they mistrust all politicians. They are giving reform their vote in the hope they are different to Lab/cons rather than with the expectation that they are. The analysis is that if Reform fail, voters aren't returning to lab/cons, they will go elsewhere.

Its the same with the younger studenty vote - they can see Labour isn't working. They listen to Greens talking about housing and financial inequality and are lending them their vote.

Labour aren't critical of the green voters because praying that these voters will eventually get the middle class jobs they are promised and return to Labour. Big ask when they are doing nothing to help them even get on the career ladder.

For some reason, Labour are happy to paint the older working class as easily led - stupid for voting brexit and Reform, maybe because they know they arent getting them back. But is a 30 year old graduate still working in tesco ever going to vote Labour either?

I suspect Reform is built around Farage, and if he steps down, the party is dead. And the same is true for the Greens. But that doesnt mean these people will be voting Labour.

moto748e · 17/05/2026 13:19

Tbc, obviously Reform has working-class voters. That doesn't mean it's a working-class movement, far from it.