How to respond when my 12-year-old says she wants to be a boy

[Slowlygoinginsane24]

My daughter told me 2 days ago she wants to be a boy she's 12.

A year ago she was gender fluid, a year before that a lesbian - someone at school had a girl friend, and not long before that she genuinely wanted to be a cat because her friend then wanted to be a cat aswell. She made masks, asked for tails the lot.
Apparently she has wanted to be a boy for a while, her best friend at school identifies as a boy. I have read that lots of children neuro diverse experience gender dysphoria and feel this is what is happening to her, she is also heavily influenced by things she sees online I have now set up age 9 restrictions for her and removed all of social media. I honestly do not know where to turn as I don't want to be seen as transphobic but I just don't get it, she has flitted between being a girly girl and a bit tom boy for her whole life. She loves makeup and eyelashes and nail. It doesn't make sense other than she started puberty at 9 when all the oddities about identity began and secondary school has surrounded her with influences she hasn't been around before.

I'm even thinking of moving her schools, she hates at that school anyway 🙈 in November she was self harming and is now recieving counselling for this.
How do I not be dismissive of how she feels at the moment but also not support it with it causing her to start hurting herself again!

The rabid yaoi fangirls aren't like men who like lesbian porn, it's an entire subculture and it's wider encompassing than you'd think.

There's a set template for girls like this, and it's been there since I was in high school in the early 2000s. It's the fujoshi to trans pipeline.

https://genspect.org/seeking-refuge-in-idiosyncratic-sexual-identities-and-yaoi/

ETA If you'd like some pro-party line literature explaining this, you can also read about how we're mean ol crusty terfs: https://www.fujoshi.info/anti-fujoshi

OP's daughter sounds like she's been caught up in this by her friends, and reminds me of friends I've had over the years who had the benefit of psychologists to talk them through it. Those are gone now, so moms need other people to tell them that it exists, it's weird, but that she can be loved out of it.

Be wary of what the counsellor is telling her. Age restricted online content seems wise. I’d also find things she enjoys and spend time doing them with her. Ruminating probably isn’t her friend.
If she is autistic then black and white thinking plays a big part. Expose her to lots of women doing non stereotypical things. Don’t make a huge deal of it. But do it consistently and intentionally.
Many autistic girls come out the other side of this unharmed by medication.

Name changed but have posted about this here under another name.
Please fight this, please do not affirm this.
My 13yo daughter told me she was non binary and then that she wanted to be a boy. She had been using male pronouns at school and a male name without my knowledge.
I found out she was extensively selfharming when I cleaned her room and found a drawer full of blood and bandages.
During this period she was diagnosed autistic and disclosed CSA :(
I fought the fuck out of this ideology.
I banned the school from using male pronouns and the male name. I wrote letters citing the Cass report and various other findings.
More importantly I sat my daughter down and I talked to here. Repeatedly. Consistently. Calmly.
I told her that she can have short hair and still be a woman. She can be strong and be a woman. She can find women attractive and be a woman. She can have a more masculine look and be a woman. I showed her 'top surgery' scars. I showed her the arms of women that have had phalloplasty. I explained that as a 'transman' she would spend her life pretending to be something she isn't, always trying to convince people, always teying to convince herself.
Or she could learn to love being the beautiful young woman she is.
I got her sexual trauma counselling. She did art therapy. She did more general talking therapy.
This spanned years of her life.
By the time she hit 15 she was back to herself. She is 17 now and has long bleach blond hair down her back and wears jeans that remind me of Christina Aguillera BUT I am so happy that I am now having normal teenage battles of what is appropriate to wear to college rather than having affirmed her.l and be dealing with double mastectomy scars and mustaches.
I truelly believe that if I would have believed the hype and listened to the school and the trans movement and 'supported her' she would have gone much, much further before realising her mistake.
These children are so young, they are vunerable.
Parenting is not always about giving a child what they want but looking at the bigger picture. Safeguarding them and helping them with what they need.

Are there any outdoor activities that she’s into? Sport and connecting to her physical body and out of her head / online is hugely helpful as others have said.

Climbing is excellent as it doesn’t require a team, the community is welcoming and all a bit non conforming themselves. There are many indoor climbing centres all around the UK. Then you start to point to female role models. And start to attend female events. Tricky when so many unfortunately include men who say they’re women but you can try.

Explain simply the dangers of breast binding if she mentions it. Likewise puberty blockers if she mentions them or cross sex hormones. You’ll need to become an expert on all of this quickly but fortunately there’s a wealth of advice now. Including on these threads.

I remember having a conversation with my DC when younger about trans and I asked ‘what makes someone a woman’ (or man) and they tried to puzzle that out. They’re still trans allies because they’re kind people but slowly accepting that it’s more complicated than they originally thought.

If your DD is autistic, then she likely to be extremely suggestible. That works both ways so it’s great you removed social media but tell her you’re going to check her search history and remove all devices at night. Be prepared for a battle. Turn the WiFi off entirely including your own phone. And then, if she can be exposed to responsible adults making good suggestions for her, that will help as well.

It might be harder now than even a few years ago because of how many teachers, doctors, social workers, therapists etc all buy into it but good luck and above all else stay close to your DD. This movement loves nothing more than separating children from their parents to exploit them.

I think it's important that the differences between men and woman are firmly emphasised. It's a developmental task to learn what the real differences are between men and women and what actually makes one a woman. It's even more important in this current climate where kids are learning that sex and gender is about stereotypes not biological differences. A child approaching or in puberty needs to learn to accept the sex they are and that they can't be the opposite or neither. Skirting round the issue just prolongs the developmental task in my view. No young girl wants to hear about periods but that wouldn't be a reason not to speak to her about it. It would obviously be made clear to the child that they may not have children but avoiding mentioning one of the largest and most obvious differences between men and women plays into the current narrative.

No more social media. None. The single most important thing you can do. No devices at all as far as possible.

“Ah well nevermind, we can’t have everything we want in life.”

Precisely no truck for that sort of rubbish.

😬I agree with you in principle, but I'd accompany this message with a big hug [if she's into hugs] and Aw sweetie, that's just not possible - let's go and [do something nice together/favourite cake/oh look there's a goldfinch in the garden....]
Children deserve the truth, but it's not always palatable or welcome, it's one of the contradictions that parents have to deal with - doing something your child is not happy with in the moment, because you know it's good for them, and it's your job to do what's good for them.

You shouldn't say out loud
'This is for your own good and you'll thank me for it some day, young lady!'
but you can be thinking it, OP, because that cliché is actually true.

Great post @Screwonlids.
Especially this.

"Parenting is not always about giving a child what they want but looking at the bigger picture. Safeguarding them and helping them with what they need"

Researchers have noted that people that maintain trans identities throughout their lives tend to use the terminology of 'I am a boy' rather' than 'I want to be a boy' so it might not be as serious as you think. Perhaps right now she's more comfortable identifying with the typical behavioural characteristics of boys & allowing her to 'try that identity on for size' to see if it fits is the path to her authentication. Part of being adolescence is exploring identity to establish it so this may not be as abnormal or harmful as you think. Its also important to keep in mind that people imitating others isn't necessarily void of any authentic resonance. Its like saying a person became gay because their friend was one. The point is, 'contagion' is a convenient way of denial of uncomfortable authentic connection.

“You can’t. That’s physically impossible. You will always be a girl even if you had surgery to change how you look”

Just tell her that she is a girl. And cant be a boy. She can't be a cat either. But she can wear 'boy's clothes' if she wants to.

Thankyou so much for all your responses. I've never used mums net in all of my parenting years but was extremely unsure how to handle this situation.
Yesterday I showed her a picture of her when she was little with these bows in her hair, and she said she'd like to have little bow clips to grow her fringe out again and maybe some bigger ones two for a ponytail. Then 5 mins later she said no because I'm a boy I don't need those, I want my hair cut. She seems extremely confused.
My feelings are her brain cannot keep up with her body, she is about 8/9 mentally but is in a very womanly body at 12. After much reading I think this definitely plays a part in how she sees herself and why she might feel like she is in the wrong body as mentally and physically she is in two completely different places.

I wish I did have the money to do this, or even the financial stability to take her out of school altogether right now

I have now, and I've requested to join the parent group but haven't had a response yet

Tbh, I think many (most?) children entering puberty feel that way as their bodies & emotions develop and change. It's always been a challenge for parents to support their children through the hormonal soup of adolescence. And then society allowed the trans charlatans to gaslight children that their bodies feeling wrong meant they must really be the opposite sex. Your daughter is one of the many casualties.

Fortunately there are now countless parents with experience of supporting their children and holding the line against these toxic organisations. I think it was mentioned upthread that closely monitoring her use of social media is important as well as making sure that her school isn't dabbling in all this. It's a tragedy that some of the most vulnerable children caught up in all this are those with a similar profile to your daughter.

In addition to the links to organisations upthread here's a link to the Bayswater group for parents - there's lots of informed advice there:

https://www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/

Edited to see that you've already been in contact with them

Although these things are not necessarily seen as extreme trauma by some I do think they are playing a part.
Her dad was abusive when she was very little, they have had a fractured relationship ever since I left when she was 2 and went into a refuge. He has always spent more time building a relationship with her brother than her and made more of an effort. But in November this year there was an incident which resulted in her brother cutting all contact with their dad. And the only time he messaged her is to see if her brother will speak to him. He doesn't believe that ASC or ADHD are real and has openly told her this.
She has voiced that dad prefers boys, and puts effort in with them but not her and that it hurts her.
When she was 6 she had two very good friends that got taken into care suddenly and she never saw again and this has left her questioning friendships and latching on to people that are not necessarily a good influence.
3 years ago I let my estranged dad back into my life as he had left being a Jehovah's witness and was no longer with my mum, and after a while allowed him to meet the kids. She adored him, and now he's gone back to the religion and to my mum and doesn't speak to us anymore.
She also suffers from severe eczema which effect her mental health and last year I lost a baby which had a huge impact on her mentally as for some reason which she can't voice she decided it is her fault.

She has lost a lot and given a lot to some people with nothing in return

I would keep challenging her talk of being a boy. Don't let it pass. Keep reminding her No, darling, you are a girl. I understand you would like to become a boy but that isn't possible. You are a girl.

Try to get her into some girl only groups or typically female dominated sports like brownies, girls gymnastics, horse riding ( particularly good for children with mental health problems.)

She needs to see some good sides to being female and understand that she doesn't have to adhere to stereotypes to be a girl.

I absolutely wouldn’t put her anywhere near Girlguiding at present.

Yes I agree that girls (and boys) need to know the facts about the different physical and biological pathways they will follow to becoming an adult but you said ‘...being a girl is awesome too and give her a picture of the kind of life a woman can lead that men can't including if she ever wants children she can give birth and be a mother and what an amazing thing that is that boys can't do.’

My point is that to most children physical adult things like puberty, periods and having sex seem pretty revolting and off putting, so trying to convince a girl who is already having issues with her body that these things are amazing and something to aspire to would IMO, have a negative effect.

Isn't there a middle way? We do need to talk to our daughters about periods, sex, pregnancy and all the core physical aspects of becoming a woman, otherwise we leave the doors open to them getting the crap information that's been doled out online in recent years.
Yes, for girl who's struggling with the physicality of it, you'll choose your words carefully. But there is a physical reality to puberty. The current toddler level fantastical thinking that a quick sex change will cure all this is what the OP's daughter currently believes.
I suppose we know our own children and the OP is best placed to decide on the right approach. And thank heavens parents are finally able to have these discussions without toxic transactivists arriving hurling around allegations of bigotry and transphobia.

I feel emotionally involved in this Slowlygoinginsane24, because as I said before, I can really relate to what your daughter is going through - though she has experienced more difficulties in her 12 years that I did in my childhood, so I acknowledge that she has more things going on than I had.

I mentioned that I considered taking my own life rather than growing up female - I found out where a neighbour kept his shotgun - and that was in between finding out about periods, and my periods starting.
It sounded absolutely horrific to me, and was the 'last straw' as far as being a girl was concerned.

But when my periods started, I just went 'Oh well...' and got on with it. Looking back on it, it was astonishing how my attitude change - and it's very revealing about how dramatic young teenagers can be, but also how pragmatic when push comes to shove.

I think 12 year olds have to know about periods, but the info can be presented in a very matter-of-fact way, de-escalating way - 'it's just something that happens, girls deal with it, boys are lucky they don't have to, but hey, millions of girls and women manage it and it doesn't stop them doing whatever they want in life'.

I think what I'm saying Slowlygoinginsane24 is that you communicate not just through words but through attitude, and if you can manage [I know it's very very difficult for you] to communicate strength, confidence, experience, steadiness, along with the great love you clearly have for your daughter, she'll pick up on the fact that you were a girl, you are a woman, and you manage OK.

One of the unfortunate things about the trans movement is that it tries to keep gender-questioning people in a constant state of worry, up to and including that trans people are 'marginalised' or even 'genocided'.

Gender-questioning children like your daughter may be picking up on that artificial trans panic, so trying to be calm and clear and strong about the fact that she is a girl and the fact that she is a woman - but whatever kind of woman she chooses to be - to counteract that.

It's a huge ask of you, I know, when you too are under so much pressure, to try to act strong and calm when you're probably feeling anything but!

Your daughter is lucky to have a mother who is going to great lengths to work out what is the best approach to take with the little girl she loves, to help her grow up to be a strong and happy woman.

Say she cannot do that and provide some biology books suitable to her age. Honestly, who is peddling this trash that you can change sex. She can, of course, wear trousers and shirts etc and cut her hair, but make sure she understands this is nothing to do with sex and is a perfectly normal female thing to do.

I’d want to know why, why does she want to be a boy, what is it about being a boy that she thinks she is missing by being a girl.

Id also want to make sure she has opportunities outside of school and away from the internet to meet a variety of women and to see that we come in all different shapes, sizes, temperaments, dress codes, aspirations, personalities…..

Have they drunk the koolaid?