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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?

1000 replies

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:39

Dear friends,

As anyone paying attention to current trans affairs knows, the anti-trans brigade like to throw around what they think is the “killer question”.

"What is a woman, then?"

These people will often engage in triumphal sneering as they further insist "Your chromosomes are what you are; XX are women and XY are men. It's science, innit?"

And as a confident trans-woman I say to these people "Absolutely! What is a woman? Great question! Let's examine that".

To begin, let's consult three definitive sources:

First, the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.
Then, modern genetics and neurophysiology.
And finally, up to date research on brain structure in cisgender and transgender women.

First, the dictionary.
For this, let's go with the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language:

Woman (noun)

  1. an adult female human being
  2. an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

As we can see from #2, despite the recent social backlash and disproportionately loud screeching from certain murky corners of the internet, Western culture as a whole is moving toward accepting the validity of trans peoples' inner gender identity. No person with a working moral compass would consider this a bad thing.

Next, let’s summarize genetics and neurophysiology.

Modern society routinely treats all the following “XY” humans as WOMEN, however...
-You can be a woman because you have X & Y chromosomes but your body is insensitive to androgens and you have female anatomy & gender identity.
Ah, so much for the childishly simplistic “But women = XX and men = XY".
-You can be a woman with X & Y chromosomes but your Y is missing the SRY gene, so you have a female body and gender identity (yes, this is a real thing despite your denials).

People who have X & Y chromosomes, but their Y is missing the SRY gene, develop a female body.
Should we treat such people as men, in society, when they have the body of a woman, simply because simpletons insist that XY = Male?
Only an inveterate bigot with some weird religious and/or psychosexual axe to grind would say yes.

You can be a woman with XXY or XXXY chromosomes, giving you a male body but female brain/body map and gender identity.
-You can be a woman with XY chromosomes but a mutation called CBX2 that blocks the influence of the SRY gene.
-You can be a woman because you have 46,XY in some cells but 46,XX in other cells, or 47, XXY.

These are all valid, scientifically obervable genetic variations that highlight the "But XX = women and XY = men" mantra for the simplistic, unscientific nonsense that it is.

And lastly, there are studies of brain structure.
These show that in the section of the brain that determines one’s sense of gender identity.

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women.
The brains of trans men also align more with cisgender men than they do with women.

And so, to summarize

Modern science, which is how rational people resolve differences of opinion.
It is not about referring to holy books, written in pre-scientific ages past.
It is not about regurgitating simplistic, binary statements that you learnt in the 4th grade.

This shows us that, genetically and biologically speaking, there are many types of women; including transgender women like me.

P.S. In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender womens' biologically determined, inner sense of gender identity.

As I’ve said, a rational society follows rational explanations, and doesn’t define its people via outdated religious or cultural ideas.
But beyond that, there is simply human courtesy and kindness.

It’s cruel, hateful and rude for the transphobic bigots to demand that people be forced to conform to their anti-scientific notions.

No one's life is affected negatively by honoring a transwoman as a woman, as the historical record of many trans accepting societies have shown.

Good people will see the very challenging dilemma that transwomen are in, and their natural empathy, coupled with scientific insight, will make them want to support their fellow human beings in being who they know they are.

And so, I ask all of you:

Should we as a society treat trans-women as the women their brain and neurobiology tells us they are? And, if not, why on earth wouldn’t we?

P.P.S. The image in this post is of women who have XY chromosomes, but an androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes their bodies to develop as female.
Would anyone in their right mind insist we treat them as males, simply because of their chromosomal makeup?
The bigots might, but you know you're better than that, right?

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
NotAtMyAge · 28/04/2026 15:03

Magpiecomplex · 27/04/2026 19:07

Psychosexual Axe To Grind would be a great username.

I quite fancy Inveterate Bigot. 😉

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 15:03

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 14:57

This is exactly the problem: you think pointing at one aristocrat with land in Mayfair is an economic policy.

The Duke of Westminster cannot put Mayfair in a suitcase, no. But capital is not just a suitcase. Ownership structures, investment flows, development decisions, borrowing, trusts, sales, tax planning and future investment can all move or change. If you punish ownership hard enough, you do not magically get a better country. You get lawyers, avoidance, lower investment and a state trying to milk assets it does not know how to run.

And “try something different” is not a serious argument. Arson is different. That does not make it housing policy.

The Greens’ offer is not brave innovation. It is the oldest socialist fantasy going:

Find rich people.
Take more money.
Assume nothing else changes.
Spend it better than everyone before you.
Call sceptics immoral.

That is not economics. It is a toddler’s theory of the Treasury.

It's been tried - literally MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DIED. Russia, China, Cambodia, North Korea - IT DOES NOT WORK.

Yes, lots of people may vote Green as a protest. Lots of people once thought Corbyn was about to sweep to power. Online enthusiasm and a few local pockets are not the same as forming a government.

The country does need a different approach.

It does not need wealth confiscation, nationalisation, gender ideology, anti-growth politics and a party that thinks women’s rights are negotiable.

So who are you voting for? Come on, I'm keen to hear it. Who do you think has the answer to these issues?

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 15:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 15:05

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 15:03

So who are you voting for? Come on, I'm keen to hear it. Who do you think has the answer to these issues?

Literally whoever has the highest chance of defeating the Greens.

https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

What colour is this map?

Also - stop avoiding every single clear coherent question you are given it';s embarrassing for humans who share the planet with you.

Nowcast — Election Maps UK

https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

EmpressaurusKitty · 28/04/2026 15:05

TheHereticalOne · 28/04/2026 14:58

Well that explains the bloody electric blanket-warmed Iron Recliner.

Should have known.

I was going to use my share to pay my mortgage off.

Can you send it over please, @Boiledbeetle? If I’m not in you can leave it with Kitty.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 15:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Don't f*cking call me a simpleton.

Igneococcus · 28/04/2026 15:07

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 15:03

There are other billionaires..

Many of which can leave and take their wealth with them. Again, what are you going to do once all the ones who can't leave have had their money taken of them?

SirChenjins · 28/04/2026 15:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

The idea that these billionaires will choose to stay in the UK when they can move themselves and/or their income abroad is laughable - but then it's the Greens, so yanno.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 15:07

Igneococcus · 28/04/2026 15:07

Many of which can leave and take their wealth with them. Again, what are you going to do once all the ones who can't leave have had their money taken of them?

And many of them can't. Let's start there.

SirChenjins · 28/04/2026 15:08

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 15:07

And many of them can't. Let's start there.

They don't need to physically move anywhere to get their money out of the UK - you know that, right?

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 15:09

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 15:06

Don't f*cking call me a simpleton.

Well if you think you can just keep taking money from billionaires and it never runs out - that s pretty simplistic thinking.

BackToLurk · 28/04/2026 15:09

There are no manifestos for the next general election, and the upcoming local elections will have zero impact on income tax (or indeed the Middle East). You're all welcome.

ArabellaScott · 28/04/2026 15:10

VictorianPlum · 27/04/2026 17:46

TLDR?

I got as far as 'As a man.....' and stopped reading, tbh.

MoistVonL · 28/04/2026 15:10

I have a lot of sympathy for Iggy on this thread.

She joined the thread to tell the patronising mansplainer not to patronise nor mansplain. She wasn't interested in rehashing arguments that have been done to death on FWR.

I disagree with her opinion on toilets and changing rooms. I don't think there are the risks to transwomen she thinks there are in the make loos. I think there are other subsets of men who are also potentially vulnerable, particularly those with significant learning disabilities. That doesn't mean we let them in the women's spaces.

However, she's been pressed pretty hard and has generally been polite about it.

It's ok that women disagree.

What's not ok is a bone idle mansplainer pinching someone else's (faulty) ideas and pretending it's his own, and telling us we're womaning incorrectly.

Igneococcus · 28/04/2026 15:11

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 15:07

And many of them can't. Let's start there.

Have you ever wondered why that glorious worker's paradise of East Germany needed a death strip to stop its citizens from running away?

ArabellaScott · 28/04/2026 15:11

NotAtMyAge · 28/04/2026 15:03

I quite fancy Inveterate Bigot. 😉

PsychoSexualAngleGrinder?

Helleofabore · 28/04/2026 15:11

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:39

Dear friends,

As anyone paying attention to current trans affairs knows, the anti-trans brigade like to throw around what they think is the “killer question”.

"What is a woman, then?"

These people will often engage in triumphal sneering as they further insist "Your chromosomes are what you are; XX are women and XY are men. It's science, innit?"

And as a confident trans-woman I say to these people "Absolutely! What is a woman? Great question! Let's examine that".

To begin, let's consult three definitive sources:

First, the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.
Then, modern genetics and neurophysiology.
And finally, up to date research on brain structure in cisgender and transgender women.

First, the dictionary.
For this, let's go with the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language:

Woman (noun)

  1. an adult female human being
  2. an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

As we can see from #2, despite the recent social backlash and disproportionately loud screeching from certain murky corners of the internet, Western culture as a whole is moving toward accepting the validity of trans peoples' inner gender identity. No person with a working moral compass would consider this a bad thing.

Next, let’s summarize genetics and neurophysiology.

Modern society routinely treats all the following “XY” humans as WOMEN, however...
-You can be a woman because you have X & Y chromosomes but your body is insensitive to androgens and you have female anatomy & gender identity.
Ah, so much for the childishly simplistic “But women = XX and men = XY".
-You can be a woman with X & Y chromosomes but your Y is missing the SRY gene, so you have a female body and gender identity (yes, this is a real thing despite your denials).

People who have X & Y chromosomes, but their Y is missing the SRY gene, develop a female body.
Should we treat such people as men, in society, when they have the body of a woman, simply because simpletons insist that XY = Male?
Only an inveterate bigot with some weird religious and/or psychosexual axe to grind would say yes.

You can be a woman with XXY or XXXY chromosomes, giving you a male body but female brain/body map and gender identity.
-You can be a woman with XY chromosomes but a mutation called CBX2 that blocks the influence of the SRY gene.
-You can be a woman because you have 46,XY in some cells but 46,XX in other cells, or 47, XXY.

These are all valid, scientifically obervable genetic variations that highlight the "But XX = women and XY = men" mantra for the simplistic, unscientific nonsense that it is.

And lastly, there are studies of brain structure.
These show that in the section of the brain that determines one’s sense of gender identity.

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women.
The brains of trans men also align more with cisgender men than they do with women.

And so, to summarize

Modern science, which is how rational people resolve differences of opinion.
It is not about referring to holy books, written in pre-scientific ages past.
It is not about regurgitating simplistic, binary statements that you learnt in the 4th grade.

This shows us that, genetically and biologically speaking, there are many types of women; including transgender women like me.

P.S. In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender womens' biologically determined, inner sense of gender identity.

As I’ve said, a rational society follows rational explanations, and doesn’t define its people via outdated religious or cultural ideas.
But beyond that, there is simply human courtesy and kindness.

It’s cruel, hateful and rude for the transphobic bigots to demand that people be forced to conform to their anti-scientific notions.

No one's life is affected negatively by honoring a transwoman as a woman, as the historical record of many trans accepting societies have shown.

Good people will see the very challenging dilemma that transwomen are in, and their natural empathy, coupled with scientific insight, will make them want to support their fellow human beings in being who they know they are.

And so, I ask all of you:

Should we as a society treat trans-women as the women their brain and neurobiology tells us they are? And, if not, why on earth wouldn’t we?

P.P.S. The image in this post is of women who have XY chromosomes, but an androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes their bodies to develop as female.
Would anyone in their right mind insist we treat them as males, simply because of their chromosomal makeup?
The bigots might, but you know you're better than that, right?

So, just to confirm.

You did not write this @HazelLemur , yet you have presented it as if this was your own work?

And you cannot even engage with what it says and defend the claims that amount to misinformation?

Why did you start this thread and post this misinformation?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/04/2026 15:14

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:39

I can - and do - square that circle, by sticking to the principle that the best outcome is the one that creates the least harm to the most amount of people.

Taking money from billionaires and using it to fund social services is a great example of that.

Allowing trans women to use female bathrooms in order to avoid the danger of going into male facilities would seem to me to be another.

Refusing to allow trans women to enter female elite sports to win prizes set aside for women athletes, would be a third example.

But why just trans wonen? By that argument, there's no reason not to include plenty of other probably harmless but at risk men.

There's no reason to single out trans women only unless you also believe they have some legitimate demand on women's resources that other men do not have, and that's taking it "beyond your simple reduction overall harm of risk in the men's" to a value judgement about the relative "womannyness" of different men. Which as per previous posts ad infinitum, is simply sexist.

ArabellaScott · 28/04/2026 15:14

HazelLemur · 28/04/2026 10:49

And the sneering attacks continue, this time against poor @IggyPopsPlasticTrousers who - from what I can see - has been nothing but calm, concise, and rational on this thread (characteristics which evidently draw the ire of the cult).

If my opening post was combative, which I accept elements of it can be construed that way, then it's because my lived experience is precisely that which happens on this board; the GC cult howling and screeching that I am not a 'real' woman and should not exist.

That we've faced hateful opposition from a minority, but a disproportionately noisy one, has been our lived experience for a long time, but it has gotten much, much worse in the last few years.
I was fully aware of the MN reputation when I made my post, and I stand by that post.

What I do not stand by, and will not stand by and do nothing, is you attacking posters other than me simply because they were courageous enough to stick their heads above the parapet and make calm, rational statements that just happen to be at odds with the cult's ideology.
That is not acceptable.

Attack me all you like - honestly, I find it as amusing as it is pathetic - but leave posters like @IggyPopsPlasticTrousers alone.

Howling
Screeching
Baying

Some men just cannot stand the noise women make, eh?

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 15:15

MoistVonL · 28/04/2026 15:10

I have a lot of sympathy for Iggy on this thread.

She joined the thread to tell the patronising mansplainer not to patronise nor mansplain. She wasn't interested in rehashing arguments that have been done to death on FWR.

I disagree with her opinion on toilets and changing rooms. I don't think there are the risks to transwomen she thinks there are in the make loos. I think there are other subsets of men who are also potentially vulnerable, particularly those with significant learning disabilities. That doesn't mean we let them in the women's spaces.

However, she's been pressed pretty hard and has generally been polite about it.

It's ok that women disagree.

What's not ok is a bone idle mansplainer pinching someone else's (faulty) ideas and pretending it's his own, and telling us we're womaning incorrectly.

Thank you. I really appreciate you saying that.

I'm going to step away from the keyboard now and go outside for a bit.

Have fun, y'all.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 28/04/2026 15:16

The Greens are pedalling the politics of grievance, if we can't have it then nobody can, 'cos it taint fair, taint right.

They're building a power base by appealing to everyone's resentment and jealousy, they have no way of delivery on anything their promising because it's all a Big Lie. Don't fall for it.

ArabellaScott · 28/04/2026 15:16

Helleofabore · 28/04/2026 15:11

So, just to confirm.

You did not write this @HazelLemur , yet you have presented it as if this was your own work?

And you cannot even engage with what it says and defend the claims that amount to misinformation?

Why did you start this thread and post this misinformation?

I'm going to guess it excites him to insult women and try to rile them up, Helle.

It's very boring, now.

5128gap · 28/04/2026 15:25

MoistVonL · 28/04/2026 15:10

I have a lot of sympathy for Iggy on this thread.

She joined the thread to tell the patronising mansplainer not to patronise nor mansplain. She wasn't interested in rehashing arguments that have been done to death on FWR.

I disagree with her opinion on toilets and changing rooms. I don't think there are the risks to transwomen she thinks there are in the make loos. I think there are other subsets of men who are also potentially vulnerable, particularly those with significant learning disabilities. That doesn't mean we let them in the women's spaces.

However, she's been pressed pretty hard and has generally been polite about it.

It's ok that women disagree.

What's not ok is a bone idle mansplainer pinching someone else's (faulty) ideas and pretending it's his own, and telling us we're womaning incorrectly.

I would have liked to talk more with Iggy about what i see as the contradiction between her socialism and being a self described 'proud trans ally' and about her being a proud trans ally that doesn't believe TWAW.
These are the sort of conversations i come to this particular board to have. Its unfortunate when discussions veer away from women talking about feminism sex and gender on the board allocated for us to do so, and become dominated by men trying to generate support for Reform.

Helleofabore · 28/04/2026 15:25

ArabellaScott · 28/04/2026 15:16

I'm going to guess it excites him to insult women and try to rile them up, Helle.

It's very boring, now.

I am guessing you are correct.

It seems very dishonest to post that essay and not credit the source. The person who posted those paragraphs on Facebook doesn't seem to have supported his claims at all.

Yet we have posters telling the OP that it is insightful work which says more about them and their ability to analyse the credibility of information than anything else.

Then again, maybe this OP thought this was a pearler of an 'essay' and thought that no one here had ever seen these exact same arguments on sometimes a daily basis.

If the OP never intended to discuss that text, that really doesn't leave many options.

BackToLurk · 28/04/2026 15:37

MoistVonL · 28/04/2026 15:10

I have a lot of sympathy for Iggy on this thread.

She joined the thread to tell the patronising mansplainer not to patronise nor mansplain. She wasn't interested in rehashing arguments that have been done to death on FWR.

I disagree with her opinion on toilets and changing rooms. I don't think there are the risks to transwomen she thinks there are in the make loos. I think there are other subsets of men who are also potentially vulnerable, particularly those with significant learning disabilities. That doesn't mean we let them in the women's spaces.

However, she's been pressed pretty hard and has generally been polite about it.

It's ok that women disagree.

What's not ok is a bone idle mansplainer pinching someone else's (faulty) ideas and pretending it's his own, and telling us we're womaning incorrectly.

Not just to call out the patronising tone. Also to say 'mumsnet is a bit TERF-y. Don’t know why, but it is.' and that's why it would 'fall on deaf ears'. In reality it 'fell on deaf ears' because it was unadulterated claptrap.

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