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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?

1000 replies

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:39

Dear friends,

As anyone paying attention to current trans affairs knows, the anti-trans brigade like to throw around what they think is the “killer question”.

"What is a woman, then?"

These people will often engage in triumphal sneering as they further insist "Your chromosomes are what you are; XX are women and XY are men. It's science, innit?"

And as a confident trans-woman I say to these people "Absolutely! What is a woman? Great question! Let's examine that".

To begin, let's consult three definitive sources:

First, the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.
Then, modern genetics and neurophysiology.
And finally, up to date research on brain structure in cisgender and transgender women.

First, the dictionary.
For this, let's go with the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language:

Woman (noun)

  1. an adult female human being
  2. an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

As we can see from #2, despite the recent social backlash and disproportionately loud screeching from certain murky corners of the internet, Western culture as a whole is moving toward accepting the validity of trans peoples' inner gender identity. No person with a working moral compass would consider this a bad thing.

Next, let’s summarize genetics and neurophysiology.

Modern society routinely treats all the following “XY” humans as WOMEN, however...
-You can be a woman because you have X & Y chromosomes but your body is insensitive to androgens and you have female anatomy & gender identity.
Ah, so much for the childishly simplistic “But women = XX and men = XY".
-You can be a woman with X & Y chromosomes but your Y is missing the SRY gene, so you have a female body and gender identity (yes, this is a real thing despite your denials).

People who have X & Y chromosomes, but their Y is missing the SRY gene, develop a female body.
Should we treat such people as men, in society, when they have the body of a woman, simply because simpletons insist that XY = Male?
Only an inveterate bigot with some weird religious and/or psychosexual axe to grind would say yes.

You can be a woman with XXY or XXXY chromosomes, giving you a male body but female brain/body map and gender identity.
-You can be a woman with XY chromosomes but a mutation called CBX2 that blocks the influence of the SRY gene.
-You can be a woman because you have 46,XY in some cells but 46,XX in other cells, or 47, XXY.

These are all valid, scientifically obervable genetic variations that highlight the "But XX = women and XY = men" mantra for the simplistic, unscientific nonsense that it is.

And lastly, there are studies of brain structure.
These show that in the section of the brain that determines one’s sense of gender identity.

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women.
The brains of trans men also align more with cisgender men than they do with women.

And so, to summarize

Modern science, which is how rational people resolve differences of opinion.
It is not about referring to holy books, written in pre-scientific ages past.
It is not about regurgitating simplistic, binary statements that you learnt in the 4th grade.

This shows us that, genetically and biologically speaking, there are many types of women; including transgender women like me.

P.S. In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender womens' biologically determined, inner sense of gender identity.

As I’ve said, a rational society follows rational explanations, and doesn’t define its people via outdated religious or cultural ideas.
But beyond that, there is simply human courtesy and kindness.

It’s cruel, hateful and rude for the transphobic bigots to demand that people be forced to conform to their anti-scientific notions.

No one's life is affected negatively by honoring a transwoman as a woman, as the historical record of many trans accepting societies have shown.

Good people will see the very challenging dilemma that transwomen are in, and their natural empathy, coupled with scientific insight, will make them want to support their fellow human beings in being who they know they are.

And so, I ask all of you:

Should we as a society treat trans-women as the women their brain and neurobiology tells us they are? And, if not, why on earth wouldn’t we?

P.P.S. The image in this post is of women who have XY chromosomes, but an androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes their bodies to develop as female.
Would anyone in their right mind insist we treat them as males, simply because of their chromosomal makeup?
The bigots might, but you know you're better than that, right?

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
quantumbutterfly · 28/04/2026 14:32

DuchessofStaffordshire · 28/04/2026 12:45

We'll, I've always wanted bigger boobs, so I'm considering taking a punt on them!

Pregnancy & breastfeeding did it for me.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 14:33

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 14:12

That is not a moral answer. It is outsourcing the theft.

“I won’t take your money personally, I’ll vote for the state to do it” is not the principled distinction you seem to think it is.

And again, you avoid every serious point put to you.

You have not explained why you have a right to other people’s wealth.

You have not explained how punishing wealth creation makes the country richer.

You have not explained why socialist experiments so reliably end in stagnation, coercion and flight.

You have not explained why people escape from socialist states into capitalist ones, not the other way round.

You just say “vote Green” and imagine that makes the economics work.

That is the problem with populist socialism. It is all grievance and no mechanism. All moral vanity and no consequences. All “someone else should pay” and no understanding of what happens when the people who build, risk, employ and invest decide they have had enough.

You have no answers. Just slogans, envy, and a polling fantasy.

" You have not explained why you have a right to other people’s wealth. "

Because - being blunt - what's the f*cking alternative?

The country is on its knees. The NHS is collapsing. Half of school buildings are unsafe. We have people turning to food banks, homeless sleeping on streets, people working three jobs unable to pay their bills etc etc.

We need more money.

Where is going to come from, if not the ultra-wealthy? Can you answer that question?

TalkingintheDark · 28/04/2026 14:36

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:48

And to anyone still on the fence, take a look - a proper look - at the first few responses.

Are these rational, intelligent, or inquisitive responses and a desire to engage? Do they seem like the kind of statements made by empathetic people? Or might they possibly, just possibly, appear to underline my opening post? 🤔

If you started a thread with a really long, wordy post about how “white people really are truly superior to black people and look here’s the science to back it up”, would you expect people to engage on a serious, empathetic level with you, or would you expect them to write you off as an irredeemable bigot?

I have no more truck with your covert male supremacism than I do with overt white supremacism, no matter how you dress it up, and I imagine most regular FWR contributors will feel the same.

Female people are entitled to boundaries both physical and conceptual that exclude ALL those of the male sex, and any male person (like you) who argues for the violation and erasure of those boundaries is a male supremacist activist who doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously, not even for a nanosecond. No matter how much pseudo-scientific bullshit he spouts.

There are plenty of places on the internet where you can peddle your trash to a gaggle of credulous, willing believers; you just have to accept that this isn’t one of them.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 14:38

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 14:33

" You have not explained why you have a right to other people’s wealth. "

Because - being blunt - what's the f*cking alternative?

The country is on its knees. The NHS is collapsing. Half of school buildings are unsafe. We have people turning to food banks, homeless sleeping on streets, people working three jobs unable to pay their bills etc etc.

We need more money.

Where is going to come from, if not the ultra-wealthy? Can you answer that question?

“What’s the alternative?” is not an argument. It is sixth-form panic with a tax demand attached.

The alternative is obvious: grow the economy, stop wasting public money, cut dependency, reduce welfare where it rewards idleness, make work pay, build more, and reform broken services.

A country does not get richer by punishing the people who create wealth and paying more people to sit on their backsides producing nothing.

Your argument is basically:

Problem exists.
Rich people exist.
Take their money.
Solved.

That is not economics. It is teenage resentment.

Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried seriously: USSR, Mao’s China, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Cambodia. Shortages, coercion, poverty and flight.

Nobody escapes into socialist states. They escape out of them.

“We need more money” is not a moral right to take other people’s wealth. It is just envy pretending to be compassion.

Helleofabore · 28/04/2026 14:39

Iatethelastbiscuit · 28/04/2026 13:55

This makes sense. Trans people’s brains look different to non-trans people’s brains because they have gender dysphoria- a mental health condition. They do not have the opposite sex’s brain in there. Similar to a few other mental health conditions that have been found to show up as abnormalities in brain scans

Yes. That is part of the discussion (or should be). That because this group have a specific mental health condition, supposedly, gender dysphoria, they should be expected to group together in such a study.

The fact that so many people took that grouping to be 'more' like female people than male people rather than accepting that they are still very much part of the male grouping is where all this misinformation stems from.

it is like the London cabbie study that showed that people with such commonalities may have certain grouping of processing pathways in the brain and development. But those cabbies don't change sex, they just have a group relating to their specific interest.

And, of course, it is why same sex attraction needs to be controlled for in the study. And it was not controlled for in the study that I believe this OP has restricted himself to read (if he read it) and is mistakenly using to prop up his poorly formed arguments.

EmpressaurusKitty · 28/04/2026 14:40

TalkingintheDark · 28/04/2026 14:36

If you started a thread with a really long, wordy post about how “white people really are truly superior to black people and look here’s the science to back it up”, would you expect people to engage on a serious, empathetic level with you, or would you expect them to write you off as an irredeemable bigot?

I have no more truck with your covert male supremacism than I do with overt white supremacism, no matter how you dress it up, and I imagine most regular FWR contributors will feel the same.

Female people are entitled to boundaries both physical and conceptual that exclude ALL those of the male sex, and any male person (like you) who argues for the violation and erasure of those boundaries is a male supremacist activist who doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously, not even for a nanosecond. No matter how much pseudo-scientific bullshit he spouts.

There are plenty of places on the internet where you can peddle your trash to a gaggle of credulous, willing believers; you just have to accept that this isn’t one of them.

Hello @TalkingintheDark, nice to see you!

Helleofabore · 28/04/2026 14:41

BackToLurk · 28/04/2026 13:58

Is that why you can't provide any evidence? You didn't write the OP and you have little idea what any of it means? You're just blindly parroting something someone else said. Pretending to be someone you aren't...Oh, wait a minute...

I think you might be right.

nicepotoftea · 28/04/2026 14:43

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:39

I can - and do - square that circle, by sticking to the principle that the best outcome is the one that creates the least harm to the most amount of people.

Taking money from billionaires and using it to fund social services is a great example of that.

Allowing trans women to use female bathrooms in order to avoid the danger of going into male facilities would seem to me to be another.

Refusing to allow trans women to enter female elite sports to win prizes set aside for women athletes, would be a third example.

Allowing trans women to use female bathrooms in order to avoid the danger of going into male facilities would seem to me to be another.

'Trans Women' is not an objectively definable group, so your only choices are mixed sex or single sex. People who operate 'inclusive' facilities operate do so on the basis that anyone can choose to use either facility and should not be challenged.

NotAtMyAge · 28/04/2026 14:45

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:48

And to anyone still on the fence, take a look - a proper look - at the first few responses.

Are these rational, intelligent, or inquisitive responses and a desire to engage? Do they seem like the kind of statements made by empathetic people? Or might they possibly, just possibly, appear to underline my opening post? 🤔

And to anyone still on the fence

In other words the vast majority of the population, who know perfectly well that people like their mum are women and people like their dad are men.

Woman is not a costume or a role-play.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 14:46

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 14:38

“What’s the alternative?” is not an argument. It is sixth-form panic with a tax demand attached.

The alternative is obvious: grow the economy, stop wasting public money, cut dependency, reduce welfare where it rewards idleness, make work pay, build more, and reform broken services.

A country does not get richer by punishing the people who create wealth and paying more people to sit on their backsides producing nothing.

Your argument is basically:

Problem exists.
Rich people exist.
Take their money.
Solved.

That is not economics. It is teenage resentment.

Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried seriously: USSR, Mao’s China, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Cambodia. Shortages, coercion, poverty and flight.

Nobody escapes into socialist states. They escape out of them.

“We need more money” is not a moral right to take other people’s wealth. It is just envy pretending to be compassion.

Your response is laughable.

" Grow the economy " ? Starmer is DESPERATE to grow the economy - it's all he talks about. It's incredibly difficult. As soon as we get any green shoots, Trump does something stupid and crashes it again.

" Stop wasting public money. " Brilliant, Einstein, just brilliant. Do you not think that if the Tories OR Labour could have done this, then they would have done? Every govt department has had its budget cut to the bone - if there was a way of cutting waste, they would have done it by now.

" Cut dependency / reduce welfare where it rewards idleness " - you're so right. Let's tell the disabled to just start walking again. And those people on unemployment benefits? They can pay their bills with positive thoughts, yes?

" Make work pay " - love it. Let's increase the minimum wage so that wages go up overall - and ignore the howls of protest from businesses that are already struggling.

" Build more " - Labour are trying to do this. Again, not easy.

" Reform broken services " - the best way to improve services is to give them more money. Currently, there isn't any. And the same point applies re ' reform ' as it does to ' stop waste ' - if it was that easy, they would have done it by now.

Your suggestions are tired, difficult, and have been attempted by many previous governments. With no, or little success.

And you'd rather keep on trying to go down this road, than trying to part the billionaires from money that they can't even spend in their lifetimes?

EdithStourton · 28/04/2026 14:48

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:21

So who are you going to vote for? I'm genuinely curious.

NFI.

MyAmpleSheep · 28/04/2026 14:48

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 14:38

“What’s the alternative?” is not an argument. It is sixth-form panic with a tax demand attached.

The alternative is obvious: grow the economy, stop wasting public money, cut dependency, reduce welfare where it rewards idleness, make work pay, build more, and reform broken services.

A country does not get richer by punishing the people who create wealth and paying more people to sit on their backsides producing nothing.

Your argument is basically:

Problem exists.
Rich people exist.
Take their money.
Solved.

That is not economics. It is teenage resentment.

Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried seriously: USSR, Mao’s China, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Cambodia. Shortages, coercion, poverty and flight.

Nobody escapes into socialist states. They escape out of them.

“We need more money” is not a moral right to take other people’s wealth. It is just envy pretending to be compassion.

Reading this thread carefully, I have to agree that "What's the alternative?" is the weakest argument present, among many very very weak ones.

Theonebutnotonly · 28/04/2026 14:48

What a load of bollocks (and I use the word advisedly).

Some babies are born with 6 fingers or webbed toes or a vestigial tail. That doesn’t alter the fact that these are mutations and the general rule is that humans don’t have six fingers, webbed toes or tails.

The rest is just too silly to bother arguing with. It reads like the homework of an earnest, naive schoolchild.

onepostwonder · 28/04/2026 14:48

Riverpaddling · 28/04/2026 08:20

We knew that 'trans women are women #no debate' had run out of road when the TRAs started to appropriate DSDs in a desperate bid to prove themselves.

This didn't 'just start.' This has always been the case.

nicepotoftea · 28/04/2026 14:49

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 14:33

" You have not explained why you have a right to other people’s wealth. "

Because - being blunt - what's the f*cking alternative?

The country is on its knees. The NHS is collapsing. Half of school buildings are unsafe. We have people turning to food banks, homeless sleeping on streets, people working three jobs unable to pay their bills etc etc.

We need more money.

Where is going to come from, if not the ultra-wealthy? Can you answer that question?

Where is going to come from, if not the ultra-wealthy?

It's going to come from people who can be taxed easily, even if they aren't particularly wealthy. I'm not passing judgement here. It's just the reality of tax collection.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 14:50

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 14:46

Your response is laughable.

" Grow the economy " ? Starmer is DESPERATE to grow the economy - it's all he talks about. It's incredibly difficult. As soon as we get any green shoots, Trump does something stupid and crashes it again.

" Stop wasting public money. " Brilliant, Einstein, just brilliant. Do you not think that if the Tories OR Labour could have done this, then they would have done? Every govt department has had its budget cut to the bone - if there was a way of cutting waste, they would have done it by now.

" Cut dependency / reduce welfare where it rewards idleness " - you're so right. Let's tell the disabled to just start walking again. And those people on unemployment benefits? They can pay their bills with positive thoughts, yes?

" Make work pay " - love it. Let's increase the minimum wage so that wages go up overall - and ignore the howls of protest from businesses that are already struggling.

" Build more " - Labour are trying to do this. Again, not easy.

" Reform broken services " - the best way to improve services is to give them more money. Currently, there isn't any. And the same point applies re ' reform ' as it does to ' stop waste ' - if it was that easy, they would have done it by now.

Your suggestions are tired, difficult, and have been attempted by many previous governments. With no, or little success.

And you'd rather keep on trying to go down this road, than trying to part the billionaires from money that they can't even spend in their lifetimes?

This is still not economics. It is just “everything is difficult, therefore take billionaires’ money”.

Yes, growth is hard. That does not make socialism clever. It makes growth even more important.

Yes, waste is hard to cut. That does not mean it does not exist. It means government is bad at reforming itself, which is precisely why handing it even more money and power is not obviously brilliant.

And no, “cut dependency” does not mean “tell disabled people to walk”. That is a childish straw man. It means a welfare system should protect people who genuinely cannot work, while not normalising long-term idleness for people who can.

“Make work pay” does not just mean hike wages by decree and hope small businesses cope. It means lower barriers to work, reduce tax traps, stop punishing extra hours, improve skills, and make employment more attractive than dependency.

“Build more” is hard because planning, regulation and political cowardice make it hard. That is an argument for removing obstacles, not for pretending the only solution is confiscation.

Your entire argument is:

Reform is difficult.
Growth is difficult.
Building is difficult.
Therefore theft is easy and right.

But it is not easy. Wealth taxes fail because wealth moves, shrinks, hides, or stops being created. The people you want to rinse are exactly the people with the most ability to leave, restructure or invest elsewhere.

And when they do, you are left with less investment, fewer jobs, lower growth, and the same failing state demanding even more money.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 14:51

nicepotoftea · 28/04/2026 14:49

Where is going to come from, if not the ultra-wealthy?

It's going to come from people who can be taxed easily, even if they aren't particularly wealthy. I'm not passing judgement here. It's just the reality of tax collection.

Ah the people in the middle. The ones with more than practically nothing - but ones who are too rooted in place due to their jobs, family and children.

Yes, the middle classes, once again. Not in fact, the billionaires.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 14:53

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 14:50

This is still not economics. It is just “everything is difficult, therefore take billionaires’ money”.

Yes, growth is hard. That does not make socialism clever. It makes growth even more important.

Yes, waste is hard to cut. That does not mean it does not exist. It means government is bad at reforming itself, which is precisely why handing it even more money and power is not obviously brilliant.

And no, “cut dependency” does not mean “tell disabled people to walk”. That is a childish straw man. It means a welfare system should protect people who genuinely cannot work, while not normalising long-term idleness for people who can.

“Make work pay” does not just mean hike wages by decree and hope small businesses cope. It means lower barriers to work, reduce tax traps, stop punishing extra hours, improve skills, and make employment more attractive than dependency.

“Build more” is hard because planning, regulation and political cowardice make it hard. That is an argument for removing obstacles, not for pretending the only solution is confiscation.

Your entire argument is:

Reform is difficult.
Growth is difficult.
Building is difficult.
Therefore theft is easy and right.

But it is not easy. Wealth taxes fail because wealth moves, shrinks, hides, or stops being created. The people you want to rinse are exactly the people with the most ability to leave, restructure or invest elsewhere.

And when they do, you are left with less investment, fewer jobs, lower growth, and the same failing state demanding even more money.

The Duke of Westminster is a billionaire. He owns a large chunk of Chelsea and Mayfair.

Good luck to him trying to flee the country with that.

A decent Socialist government should still, of course, try and do all the things you suggest. Just because they are hard, doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

But given that the previous Tory and current Labour governments have all promised to do those things and obviously failed - suggests we need a different approach.

The Greens are willing to try and do it differently. I want them to form a government in order to have the chance to do that.

Lots of people seem to agree that they're worth voting for.

PotatoLove · 28/04/2026 14:56

Typical mansplaining 🥴🥴🥴🤣🤣🤣

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 14:57

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 14:53

The Duke of Westminster is a billionaire. He owns a large chunk of Chelsea and Mayfair.

Good luck to him trying to flee the country with that.

A decent Socialist government should still, of course, try and do all the things you suggest. Just because they are hard, doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

But given that the previous Tory and current Labour governments have all promised to do those things and obviously failed - suggests we need a different approach.

The Greens are willing to try and do it differently. I want them to form a government in order to have the chance to do that.

Lots of people seem to agree that they're worth voting for.

This is exactly the problem: you think pointing at one aristocrat with land in Mayfair is an economic policy.

The Duke of Westminster cannot put Mayfair in a suitcase, no. But capital is not just a suitcase. Ownership structures, investment flows, development decisions, borrowing, trusts, sales, tax planning and future investment can all move or change. If you punish ownership hard enough, you do not magically get a better country. You get lawyers, avoidance, lower investment and a state trying to milk assets it does not know how to run.

And “try something different” is not a serious argument. Arson is different. That does not make it housing policy.

The Greens’ offer is not brave innovation. It is the oldest socialist fantasy going:

Find rich people.
Take more money.
Assume nothing else changes.
Spend it better than everyone before you.
Call sceptics immoral.

That is not economics. It is a toddler’s theory of the Treasury.

It's been tried - literally MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DIED. Russia, China, Cambodia, North Korea - IT DOES NOT WORK.

Yes, lots of people may vote Green as a protest. Lots of people once thought Corbyn was about to sweep to power. Online enthusiasm and a few local pockets are not the same as forming a government.

The country does need a different approach.

It does not need wealth confiscation, nationalisation, gender ideology, anti-growth politics and a party that thinks women’s rights are negotiable.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 28/04/2026 14:57

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers - Totally agree with your first para. God, the far right must be loving this. We go round in circles on the trans debate while they roll back abortion rights, voting rights, contraception...

When did that happen? Was it in this country, this planet, this time line? Blimey, you go to work for a couple of hours and all sorts on things happen behind your back. 🤣

TheHereticalOne · 28/04/2026 14:58

Boiledbeetle · 28/04/2026 13:51

Am I the only one who regularly receives the money from the far right?

I mean there was some mention from my generous mystery benefactors when it first started arriving about distributing it amongst the other cult members, but I'm not one for following rules.

<goes back to polishing my gold ingots>

Well that explains the bloody electric blanket-warmed Iron Recliner.

Should have known.

Igneococcus · 28/04/2026 15:00

The Duke of Westminster is a billionaire. He owns a large chunk of Chelsea and Mayfair.

Google says his net worth is about 10.1 Billion. NHS England spends about 153 Billion annually (that was 2022/23, it's probably more now), so if you take all of the Duke of Westminster's money you can run the NHS England for 3.46 weeks with it. What are you going to do after that?

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 15:03

Igneococcus · 28/04/2026 15:00

The Duke of Westminster is a billionaire. He owns a large chunk of Chelsea and Mayfair.

Google says his net worth is about 10.1 Billion. NHS England spends about 153 Billion annually (that was 2022/23, it's probably more now), so if you take all of the Duke of Westminster's money you can run the NHS England for 3.46 weeks with it. What are you going to do after that?

There are other billionaires..

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 15:03

Igneococcus · 28/04/2026 15:00

The Duke of Westminster is a billionaire. He owns a large chunk of Chelsea and Mayfair.

Google says his net worth is about 10.1 Billion. NHS England spends about 153 Billion annually (that was 2022/23, it's probably more now), so if you take all of the Duke of Westminster's money you can run the NHS England for 3.46 weeks with it. What are you going to do after that?

Well comrade after that we have a well deserved and contractually obliged tea break and enjoy the fruits of someone else's our labours

In our new socialist Utopia we won't need the NHS as much as it's only evil property owners who invented sickness, in Socialist Britain, Cancer will be outlawed by the state, and therefore no longer an issue.

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