Aren't transpeople still a tiny minority?

[Waheymum]

Over about fifteen years, I've noticed growing awareness and concern about transpeople. This may be my age and simply a case of when people I knew started to transition.
What I'm wondering is whether there are statistics further to the last census on how many people are transitioning or have transitioned. This is because I'm pretty sure that men are still a bigger threat to women's safety than transgender (m-f) women are. I'm not saying that no transwoman poses a risk to women, I'm querying whether, statistically, I'm better off crossing the road to avoid a cisgender man or a transgender woman (if, hypothetically, one were on each side of the road).

Posting this again because it is so good. I recommend reading the whole thing:
https://x.com/prof_curiosity1/status/2046106359247077884

Excerpt:

None of this means the young person is lying, performing, or acting in bad faith. It means that the certainty is doing a job, that the job is psychological rather than epistemic, and that the certainty will remain impervious to reasoned challenge for as long as the underlying distress that the identity is managing remains unaddressed......

....The certainty is real. It is also a symptom. Treating it as a symptom rather than a conclusion is where the clinical and parental work actually begins.

Encouraging people to 'admit to oneself that one is trans and that being trans is ok' is surely entrenching the identity that is managing the distress, rather than dealing with the distress. It might be a useful interim phase, but it should not be an end point.

The problem is that it isn't one thing.

It's used to describe a medical condition similar to anorexia; gender non-conformity; men who, by their own testimony, are indulging a fetish; people who in previous decades would have identified with subcultures like punk.

I'm sure that isn't an exhaustive list.

And meanwhile, sex has not stopped being relevant and women still need sex specific rights.

@Diverze I have a lot of sympathy for parents who have a child that declared they were the opposite sex. It must be incredibly difficult to navigate if as a parent you feel that this is a futile path to go down and yet the powers that be will all jump to affirm your child's understanding, from school to therapists to the medical system, media and so on. It must be like walking a tightrope where one step out of place and your child could cut you off - again persuaded by the messaging that is ubiquitous eg. What sticks in mind was a meme going around where well meaning and not so well meaning people shared "If your parents don't understand you, I'm your mother now". In addition, there was something around "chosen family" that I think may have appeared in the likes of Primark and other stores.
I get how hard that must be and how much better it must feel to try to push those nagging doubts down and try to "meet your child where they are at".

A parent with a child is really not functioning in a vacuum but within a system that tells everyone that up is down and down is up.

Either its gender non conformity, or its pretending to be the opposite sex. The first shouldn't be an issue. The second can cause all sorts of problems.

Yep. An umbrella term that encompasses such different meanings seems quite meaningless in itself.

Trans is like OCD - obsessions (identifying as opposite sex) then compulsions (acting out this obsession) which provides some relief to the obsession which also reinforce the obsession leading further compulsions in a destructive cycle. Like OCD it requires the individual to realise the obsession are not real but are destructive thoughts and to step out of the cycle.

They aren't yet acknowledging that trans people do have a right to present as they wish and to move through life with dignity.
He can present as a woman, but in doing so he needs to respect the dignity of others, not just his own.

This is why I loathe drag. It's such a crude parody. It's reductive and insulting.

Part of the reinforcement for many for trans (not OCD) is of course sexual.

Just because a man decides that they would rather identify as more feminine, what makes you believe that their inherent male personality/traits/actions change because of this???

do you believe that a man putting on a dress and a smear of lippy magically changes him into a rainbow farting unicorn???

of course it doesn’t, and it’s been proved time and time again, that offending rates of cross dressing men is higher than for men without this urge.

in fact in many police forces cross dressing was seen as a prequel to extreme sexual harassment or abuse.

These men have become emboldened by the taking away of our safeguarding. In many cases this isn’t ‘transgender’ it’s just cross dressing…a sexual fetish coming out in the open for us all to have to deal with. The fact they feel brave enough to colonise our safe spaces shows how far this lunacy has gone.

No man knows what it is like to be a woman. So when they say they identify as a woman they are saying they identify as a male’s fantasy of a woman - and that fantasy is driven by porn amongst other things.

So, if they can do that when all trans are swimming, then why can't the transwomen keep the hell out of women's facilities the rest of the time?

I think you have continued to attempt to polarise people’s words. For instance, you seem take staement about fetishists and to mean ALL male trans people, when it doesn’t necessarily refer to all male trans people. That is you choosing to interpret it as a generalised comment.

You keep referring to us having to advocate for people like your child in all our aims and never acknowledging that this is not our role. If you feel strongly about this, form your own advocacy group. Of course, we have been advocating for additional spaces already and for better medical support for people including mental health support to allow people to live without hormone treatments and surgeries.

It is wrong of you to expect us to centre your child in our own work though. It was not respectful to any poster to attempt to shame them for not using the pronouns you want to use for your child, yet you have not acknowledged this either.

Instead you expect people to act as a support for your child and his decisions and you label it as respectful, when it actually is you placing obligations that you personally accepted for whatever reasons on others.

I can fully appreciate the difficult situation you are in. I can also understand how worried you are for the future. As a start, if your child take hormones, how likely is it that he will continue to follow your thinking that he hasn’t changed sex? You might find all that work you have done to strike what you consider a balance is all significantly changed. Yet, as he is an adult, what can you do.

The reason you are getting the pushback that you are and you end up feeling like you are repeating yourself is that you have placed unreasonable expectations on others.

No matter how you have explained it in your own head, your child has a belief that his subjective reality is material reality. The expectation is that it is somehow respectful that others treat that subjective reality as if it is material reality.

Sure, you say he knows he is male. But he likes it when people use female pronouns and female descriptors for him, else you wouldn’t do it. Even adding trans in front of daughter does that. You can use that language, not one other person should be expected to though.

You insist there is a middle ground. Is there a middle ground? I consider the only middle ground suggested involves changing established language for an entire society to suit someone’s subjective reality that is not material reality. Even if you say ‘but it is just a few of them’ or ‘we don’t really know how they feel but it makes them happy’ as a reason, the middle ground is not middle ground at all.

The actual middle ground would be more like additional provisions and accurate language is maintained for all who wish to use it with not emotional manipulation to force compliance. Ie. No expectation at all when people are speaking to you about your son.

But instead we keep getting accusations that we moderate and change our language to suit your personal interpretation of statements. As has been said already, instead of assuming that statements about fetishists don’t mean all trans people, you want people to add a disclaimer because of your personal interpretation that they must mean all trans people are fetishists.

That could be considered a disruptive tactic, and one that could be intended to silence discussion.

because they want to be in womens spaces....

Thank you for posting this, it’s really interesting.

@Waheymum "I agree that hormones have been/are being used as an easy replacement for genuine mental health help and that it shows. I think it's always shown though, especially if you talk to transwomen rather than avoid them."

So they're men with serious mental health issues? History and experience informs us that the 2 things put together never ends well for women.

You're ignoring the fact that you started this by rudely telling me off for using the correct pronouns. It's very disingenuous of you to pretend to be polite and reasonable and just want separate spaces and respect. You have no idea what forcing everyone around you to comply will end up causing for women's safety and we don't trust you given the previous behaviour of the affirmation camp. We see you and we do not comply.

A lot of what s/he posts is well-argued and compelling. Would recommend a follow to those of you on X.
https://x.com/prof_curiosity1

A compromise? Like everyone accepting the earth is actually a dome shape rather than a globe because some people insist it is flat?

No, I agree with you there.
My question was more to point out that if it is just a case of name changing and wearing womens clothes, then that is a deluded fetish, that is obviously being enabled and pandered to. And demeaning to women.
Even with surgery, as I pointed out further up, men are men, women are women, there is no question there at all. There are only 2 sexes.

My sympathy lies with those who truly feel they were born into the wrong body. I don't buy into popping a dress on and demanding to be called Susan. That's a mental health issue. Not a physical issue.

"Sure, you say he knows he is male. But he likes it when people use female pronouns and female descriptors for him, else you wouldn’t do it. Even adding trans in front of daughter does that. You can use that language, not one other person should be expected to though.
You insist there is a middle ground. Is there a middle ground? I consider the only middle ground suggested involves changing established language for an entire society to suit someone’s subjective reality that is not material reality. Even if you say ‘but it is just a few of them’ or ‘we don’t really know how they feel but it makes them happy’ as a reason, the middle ground is not middle ground at all."

And I've wondered about this. Say we have a young person who is affirmed in college and at home and then they nip to the corner shop and Dave behind the counter does not understand all this newfangled political correctness but thinks it's fine men can wear dresses as he grew up in the 80s, so refers to that young man who is used to being referred to as a girl as 'son'.

This smack against reality must be jarring. The unhappiness that Dave caused by referring to him as male vs the nice staff at college who he has convinced himself actually see him as female because the words they use say as such, must further entrench a feeling that he is correct about himself.

I saw it play out when an acquaintance had his operation. Suddenly Nancy in the charity shop letting on that she recognised him as male had an even bigger impact because the stakes were now higher. From how he described addressing it, I would not have liked to be on the receiving end.

Edited to add I liked this person. Seeing the distress he was still in despite all he had put his body through was not nice.

They aren't yet acknowledging that trans people do have a right to present as they wish and to move through life with dignity.

I don't see that anyone has an issue with this.

Men can present how they want. No one should be discriminated against for presenting in a way that isn't typical for their sex.

But we aren't going to pretend that men can become women - in any way, which includes language.

It really is that simple. I'm not sure what else you want from people.

Fetishes extend to being castrated (or having your legs amputated). The most popular surgery for men who identify as trans is breast implants….

Transwomen ARE men. They are fully intact males with penis and testicles. They are just wearing a dress instead of a suit and tie. That's all. They are men. And evidence shows transwomen commit sexual offences 5 times higher than all other males. Transwomen are far more dangerous to women than other males, that is per prison and government data.

I do think that it is an impossible situation. There is no middle ground around language despite the declarations of it being kind and respectful.

It cannot be healthy for a person to move out of a protective bubble that a group of people have created for that person and understand that actually, the rest of society isn’t part of that bubble. The immediate emotional reaction is to declare everyone not acting in support as being hateful.

Whereas, it is that material reality continues to abide regardless of all the changes an individual makes to support a subjective reality that is not material reality.

We have also seen some male people who then declare that absolutely not one person treats them as if they are not female. When that is almost impossible. Either they live in a bubble or they simply lack the self awareness to acknowledge that others have correctly identified their sex.

What those male people do highlight though is where people’s well meaning actions end up. With male people who cannot accept material reality about the sex category of their body and who can get abusive towards those who refuse to treat a man as if they were a woman. Whether the well meaning person intended to do this or not, every one of them in the life of that man contributed to that man never being able to accept material reality.

How the fuck is that healthy for that person? And how the fuck is that an acceptable outcome of someone’s well intentioned middle ground?

I object to men (and women) wearing their fetish in public. In what world do you think it appropriate to wear eg bondage gear to teach primary children? Why should a bank teller be allowed to wear a gimp mask? Or a doctor a nappy and a ‘baby-girl’ outfit?