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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Phillipson criticised over women’s rights stance in sex and gender debate

122 replies

impossibletoday · 11/04/2026 21:29

Phillipson accused of putting career ahead of women’s rights in trans war

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/bb0dee47182826e1

Phillipson accused of putting career ahead of women’s rights in trans war

Baroness Falkner says women and equalities minister blocking single-sex spaces guidance for fear of ‘alienating activist MPs’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/bb0dee47182826e1

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12
theilltemperedamateur · 13/04/2026 00:24

GallantKumquat · 12/04/2026 23:52

I tend to think they won't. Granted the case against depends on the assumptions that Labour has a self-preservation instinct and a mature view of the law, quantities in which Labour under Starmer has shown itself to be deficient. But the case is roughly as follows - it's not sufficient to define sex in the act as "meaning birth sex or acquired gender" as there is law in which biological sex is clearly meant and can't be reconciled with acquired sex, including within the EA 2010 itself - the SC FWS judgement points this out explicitly and clearly. The original EA (and subsequent interpretation) tried to punt on this, leaving it ambiguous enough that judgement could be exercised on a case by case bases. But as the SC noted, that's not tenable - the supreme court was presented with apparent contradictions in the law and said the only way of resolving those contradictions was insisting biological sex meant sex in all cases.

Competent law demands that in the face of that judgement - that if Labour changes the definition of sex to mean both biological sex and acquired gender, that they then must explicitly harmonise that with the cases where treating sex as acquired gender is nonsensical. That harmonisation is a gigantic and politically fraught task. Failure to do the real work of harmonisation and simply changing a few words in the EA risks the SC rendering the exact same decision, noting the difficult position Parliament put them in by not passing reasonable law, because inherent contractions must still be resolved somehow, i.e. it's not sufficient for a legislature to say there is no contradiction by fiat.

Edited

The SC had to decide whether a GRC holder should be treated as either their birth sex or their recognised gender: I'm suggesting that they could have both as protected characteristics (and broaden it out to acquired gender, to avoid the two-tier GRC problem). A transman could be entitled to maternity protection by virtue of birth sex, and could also join Men's Sheds without breaking the terms of Schedule 16. And sue for discrimination as to gender reassignment if turned away. I'm not saying it's a great idea, just that somebody might try it!

LeftieRightsHoarder · 13/04/2026 00:31

PronounssheRa · 12/04/2026 08:27

Bloody hell, who is the Labour source? Their comment is disgraceful

A Labour source hit back against the claims and said: “Baroness Falkner has yet again demeaned the office she once held with these disgraceful personal comments.“Far from upholding the principle of equality and uniting communities, these comments seek only to further stoke the culture wars that have inflamed and divided our country.“Labour is doing things properly, providing the sober and grown-up leadership on these issues needed to ensure organisations and businesses need to uphold the law and everyone is treated fairly and compassionately, with dignity and respect.”

It’s disgusting. Does ‘a Labour source’ mean some random member who could be just speaking for himself and his incel mates? The quote doesn’t even make sense, as all the prevaricating is about letting organisations continue refusing to uphold the law.

Mind, last I heard, Starmer thought very few women had a penis 🙄 , so who knows what his official line is.

LeftieRightsHoarder · 13/04/2026 00:51

KnottyAuty · 12/04/2026 21:00

Labour didn’t put the GRA on the Queen’s Speech in 2003 so I doubt they’ll put anything like this on the King’s speech. Remember- it all has to be done by stealth because most people are against this… In 2003 they got the GRA put forward by the Lords the day after the Queens Speech - so we should be watching what’s coming through the Lords rather than the Commons?

I didn’t know that. They certainly sneaked the GRA through. Later I thought I’d just missed any announcement and debate etc because the big concern at that time was trying to stop Blair and his mates invading Iraq.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 13/04/2026 01:29

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 12/04/2026 20:39

Wow, thank you for the info @POWNewcastleEastWallsend - what a fecking cheeky mare! I hope someone knows who she is. Was she also the one wearing a hoody that said something about anti digital ID, or was that someone else?

Same woman. I've found photos of her wearing the same outfit last November.

It didn't take very long to work out who she is.

The placards were the first clue on a trail that was surprisingly easy to follow. It took very little effort to find out who she is, where she lives, what she likes to eat and drink, where she likes to go for a night out, who her friends are, her history of involvement with various protest movements, etc. etc.

She also seems to think that all she needs to do to conceal her identity is to wear a large pair of sunglasses every now and again 🤷‍♀️

GallantKumquat · 13/04/2026 01:38

theilltemperedamateur · 13/04/2026 00:24

The SC had to decide whether a GRC holder should be treated as either their birth sex or their recognised gender: I'm suggesting that they could have both as protected characteristics (and broaden it out to acquired gender, to avoid the two-tier GRC problem). A transman could be entitled to maternity protection by virtue of birth sex, and could also join Men's Sheds without breaking the terms of Schedule 16. And sue for discrimination as to gender reassignment if turned away. I'm not saying it's a great idea, just that somebody might try it!

The SC had to decide whether a GRC holder should be treated as either their birth sex or their recognised gender.

I'm reluctant to push the point further, because it requires me to argue from the perspective that Labour isn't that incompetent, stupid, craven, etc., but the SC did consider whether someone could be both a woman (by dint of biology) and man (by dint of GRC), or vice versa, and they deemed the result logically incoherent. That incoherence can't just be gotten rid of by adding a couple of words to the act, i.e. it's important to recognise that in the judgement 'parliamentary intent' is not just what the legislators might have thought in their individual minds, but the logical system they set forth in law, as a whole.

The situation could be resolved if Paliament decided to take on those issues like maternity, board makeup, athletic participation, one by one or created some framework and guiding principle for resolving logical conflicts, but that is not an easy legislative task - I just can't imagine a scenario were Labour would think they could prepare it in secret and submit it for vote without a gigantic political firestorm and collapse of the legislation.

I too (unfortunately) can't 100% put it past Labour to try - Parliament after all is allowed to legislate anything it wants- but I think it's probabilistically unlikely because the SC made it plain that their decision was not just based on the fact that the EA 2010 didn't set out the explicit language, but instead because the situation that conflating the two would create is logically untenable.

KnottyAuty · 13/04/2026 07:23

LeftieRightsHoarder · 13/04/2026 00:31

It’s disgusting. Does ‘a Labour source’ mean some random member who could be just speaking for himself and his incel mates? The quote doesn’t even make sense, as all the prevaricating is about letting organisations continue refusing to uphold the law.

Mind, last I heard, Starmer thought very few women had a penis 🙄 , so who knows what his official line is.

Starmer gave an answer which was legally correct regarding GRCs. In effect he dodged the question - and looked ridiculous as a result - but he didn’t lie and to me it revealed he’s not a true believer. … if that’s any conciliation?!?

KnottyAuty · 13/04/2026 07:25

LeftieRightsHoarder · 13/04/2026 00:51

I didn’t know that. They certainly sneaked the GRA through. Later I thought I’d just missed any announcement and debate etc because the big concern at that time was trying to stop Blair and his mates invading Iraq.

Oh no - from about 2005 all the dealings on this have been hidden and publications from the DfH look “ultra vires” and potentially illegal… it’s a shit show but hopefully at some point a journalist will want to write about it

lcakethereforeIam · 13/04/2026 09:44

Wasn't there also the problem of telling who held a GRC and who didn't?

theilltemperedamateur · 13/04/2026 09:55

lcakethereforeIam · 13/04/2026 09:44

Wasn't there also the problem of telling who held a GRC and who didn't?

Yes: if Labour want to change the law they would have to wind things back to pre-Haldane. Everyone chooses what sex they are when claiming their human rights (but biological sex would still have evidentiary weight in relation to other people's rights). It would be an absolute riot and I almost wish they would try it just so we can point and laugh.

I'm not sure that the SC had the option of reversing Haldane, because the respondents didn't cross-appeal on that point.

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OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 13/04/2026 12:09

Oh dear, she's not doing well there at all. And she loves the word 'categorically'.

"We are following the law, toilets should be provided on the basics of sex"
"So when a man goes into the women's toilet, what should an employer do?"
<Panicked look, burbling non answer with the word 'categoric' or 'consistent' thrown around a lot>

If you are going to actually protect women's single sex spaces, saying 'no' to men - particularly difficult men- IS going to be involved.

As an employer you provide a third space OR contained cubicles, you inform the staff that they do not have access to toilets designated for the opposite sex, and if it is noted that a man is breaching this, then you have a serious conversation about following the work place rules and requirements. And if necessary that would move to disciplinary action if you have a man determined not to permit women a single sex space. Obviously.

So what's with the burble?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/04/2026 12:42

impossibletoday · 13/04/2026 11:19

Goodness.

impossibletoday · 13/04/2026 12:50

Akua Reindorf..

Phillipson criticised over women’s rights stance in sex and gender debate
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Shortshriftandlethal · 13/04/2026 12:54

Olivia Bailey looked like she was preparing for a bout there.......and then out came this very young and girlish voice.

Iamnotalemming · 13/04/2026 13:32

I appreciate the robustness but I agree with Akua, policing the toilets is not the way to make the point.

UtopiaPlanitia · 13/04/2026 14:54

impossibletoday · 11/04/2026 21:29

Phillipson accused of putting career ahead of women’s rights in trans war

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/bb0dee47182826e1

What I don't understand is why the population at large (and all political journalists) don't realise how concerning it is that a Labour minister (and this Labour govt) feel perfectly free to ignore a legal judgement from the Supreme Court simply because they don't like it. Same in Scotland with the SNP.

Having behaved like this, a govt can feel free to do exactly the same again on any other issue. And they will also be setting a precedent for future govts of any political stripe - don't like the way the Supreme Court decided on something? No probs just ignore it and fob everyone off by saying you're working away on it!

This is a govt, headed by a high profile lawyer, blatantly ignoring the rule of law because it doesn't suit them - if this isn't a reason for concern that citizens' rights and the legal system are being undermined, then I don't know what is. But, because the govt's behaviour is viewed as only affecting women, it's treated as being trivial and those of us pointing out the larger issue with this behaviour are derided as moaning.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 13/04/2026 16:18

Iamnotalemming · 13/04/2026 13:32

I appreciate the robustness but I agree with Akua, policing the toilets is not the way to make the point.

Agree. It's stirring.

As pp says above, it's about refuges, girls groups, lesbian and gay groups, rape services, medical care - but the toilets is the activist chaos gremlin wedge.

I did appreciate Ed Balls' point though which was to paraphrase, ffs, is it yes or no?

Pingponghavoc · 13/04/2026 16:25

I agree that Ed Balls was trying to claim single sex toilets are unworkable. Almost, without a bouncer on the door anything goes. I bet he's never used a women toilet, though.

Olivia Bailey came across poorly. She cant say why its taking so long, just that it needs to be correct and that takes time. Meanwhile, she's suggesting employees pay lawyers to give them advice.

The government should have been prepared for the most obvious possible outcomes, and had something prepared. Taking this long doesn't signal competence, it signals that they don't like the outcome.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 13/04/2026 16:28

UtopiaPlanitia · 13/04/2026 14:54

What I don't understand is why the population at large (and all political journalists) don't realise how concerning it is that a Labour minister (and this Labour govt) feel perfectly free to ignore a legal judgement from the Supreme Court simply because they don't like it. Same in Scotland with the SNP.

Having behaved like this, a govt can feel free to do exactly the same again on any other issue. And they will also be setting a precedent for future govts of any political stripe - don't like the way the Supreme Court decided on something? No probs just ignore it and fob everyone off by saying you're working away on it!

This is a govt, headed by a high profile lawyer, blatantly ignoring the rule of law because it doesn't suit them - if this isn't a reason for concern that citizens' rights and the legal system are being undermined, then I don't know what is. But, because the govt's behaviour is viewed as only affecting women, it's treated as being trivial and those of us pointing out the larger issue with this behaviour are derided as moaning.

🖕💯

I wish I could remember who I read saying, "Everything trans touches turns to dust" because the stakes keep getting higher and higher!

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 13/04/2026 16:41

If the government doesn't follow the law, what right do they have to expect the population to follow the law. Without law and order we'd have chaos, and chaos doesn't need a government. Maybe they should reflect on that, there a plenty of examples around the world of countries that are lawless hell holes for them to learn a lesson from.

teawamutu · 13/04/2026 16:53

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 13/04/2026 16:41

If the government doesn't follow the law, what right do they have to expect the population to follow the law. Without law and order we'd have chaos, and chaos doesn't need a government. Maybe they should reflect on that, there a plenty of examples around the world of countries that are lawless hell holes for them to learn a lesson from.

Quite. I don't much fancy paying tax this year, so I'm assuming the government will beee kiiind and let me ignore the self-assessment reminders...

testmatchspecial · 13/04/2026 17:04

Olivia Bailey campaigned to get Julie Bindel no-platformed when she was women’s officer of the NUS.

Phillipson criticised over women’s rights stance in sex and gender debate
Phillipson criticised over women’s rights stance in sex and gender debate
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DameProfessorIDareSay · 14/04/2026 09:13

Two items of interest in Parliament this afternoon:

An oral question in the Lords just after 2.30pm on the EHRC guidance, from Lord Rooker (Labour and terfy).

There is also a Westminster Hall debate at 2.30pm on the 'First anniversary of the For Women Scotland v The Scottish Ministers ruling’ , DUP’s Carla Lockhart is the instigator (very terfy!).

Both available on Parliament TV.

Phillipson is supposed to meet FWS this week, perhaps she is finally going to be shamed into action?

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