Is there ANY concern among Trans Rights Activists for the health wellbeing of adolescents receiving gender affirming drugs that the findings of the Finnish study might be true

[mardirousse]

You would expect Trans Rights Activists to be concerned about the physical mental health of gender questioning children, yet I haven't seen a single TRA express the slightest concern that gender affirming care might be causing harm to young kids, who they see as transgender. Not here, not on r/transgenderuk, not on x.
They are attacking the credibility of the study, but given its size and the very shocking findings, why aren't at least some of them expressing a little concern that there might be something in it? I mean, these are vulnerable kids, and they're taking really powerful drugs with major long-term consequences, and now it looks like there's evidence that it may be doing the opposite of what it's supposed to...
How could you not be concerned, whatever your agenda? They're kids!
Aren't trans rights activists interested in the right of trans kids to be safe and healthy?
Am I missing something?

This narrative allows you neatly fold my experience into 'man' and the required sex realist beliefs. It has no affect on reality.

Well. No. Because, and this might shock your cotton socks off:

I AM FEMALE!

I have no fucking idea what your life as a male person is like. I don’t claim to but I do correctly categorise it and acknowledge it.

The reality is that you’re a man. You may wish to and pretend to be otherwise, but the reality is that you are and always will be a man.

Okay. It remains a belief.

i reckon you are onto something.

A male person with male socialisation will certainly act differently to a female person who has been told to STFU and told how they should act in the workplace. I remember those days….

The reality is you have only your beliefs. They have no affect on my life.

No.

It remains science supported evidence.

I have NO fucking idea what your life was like or is like because I am female and you are not. You were fucking spot on in that observation about me not knowing your male experiences since birth!

Well I reckon that if you live in the UK, that fact that you are male will become rather important soon.

Your being female has no impact on my life or how it has been lived.

As in, it will be shown that it is not our ‘belief’ but law.

Are you a trans woman?

For the sake of discussion here, sure. Yes, I transitioned.

I'm fairly sure that @onepostwonderhas previously said that taking estrogen during puberty resulted in the same skeletal changes that a girl would experience - pelvis width, q angle, shoulder width, ribcage size, etc. and has certainly alluded to it on this thread. I have searched Google using a variety of search terms but have failed to find anything to support this claim. So I asked copilot if a boy took estrogen during puberty would he end up with the same skeleton as a girl would. This is the reply:

"How estrogen affects a developing male skeleton
If a boy takes estrogen during puberty under medical supervision, several skeletal changes can be influenced:

• Growth plates may close earlier.

Estrogen is the hormone that signals growth plates to fuse. Starting estrogen early can reduce final adult height.

• Pelvic bones may widen slightly, but not to the same degree as someone who went through female puberty.

Pelvic shape is strongly influenced by genetics and early developmental factors, not just hormones.

• Fat distribution changes, which can visually soften body contours, even though the underlying bone structure doesn’t fully change.

• Shoulder width and ribcage size are mostly determined by genetics and early puberty testosterone exposure. Estrogen cannot reverse or fully prevent these from developing.

---

What estrogen cannot do
Even if started early in puberty, estrogen cannot:

• Reshape the pelvis into a typical female birth canal structure
• Narrow the ribcage or shoulders to typical female proportions
• Change hand, foot, or skull size dramatically
• Undo bone growth already influenced by testosterone

These traits are set by a combination of genetics and early hormonal environment.

---

What can change significantly
Estrogen can meaningfully influence:

• Fat distribution (hips, thighs, chest, face)
• Skin texture
• Muscle mass and strength
• Breast development
• Overall body proportions (visually, not structurally)

These changes can create a more feminine appearance even if the skeleton itself doesn’t fully match typical female patterns."

Now, obviously AI isn't noted for perfection but....

Only men can be trans women.

Uh huh. Thank you.

No problem 😌

Absolute BULLSHIT you know NOTHING about going through female puberty. Don’t bloody kid yourself.

How DARE you pretend you know the first bloody thing about it.

I asked you if you recruited actual women.

According to you, you're a woman, although nobody else on the thread agrees.

So my question was: did you recruit natal women or transwomen to this committee?

NO?

That is because I AM FEMALE! It is really pretty rare for female people to negatively impact on male
people’s lives by following laws and only claiming only to be female for purposes relevant to being female.

You have no idea of my experience from birth

You were clearly male from birth.

At no point have I been grouped with men

Well. Apart from at birth, when you were observed to be male, and your sex recorded as male.

You were born male, and you're still male, because people cannot change sex.

You were co-opted on to a committee as a female, which you should not have been. You're not a female.

What experience of puberty?
It wasn't female puberty as you did not experience hair growth on on the vulva, increasing discharge from the vagina or menstruation.
The growth of breasts due to oestrogen is not puberty.
When I went on the combined pill at age 21 my small breasts doubled in size. This was not a second puberty.
Some men grow breasts due to treatment for prostate cancer. This is not puberty either.

I don't want to overstep here, but you do understand that you will need prostate exams, especially as you age?

When did you start menstruating then, @onepostwonder?
You know, having allegedly gone through female puberty?

I mean, I don't see how that was possible, as you weren't born with a uterus.

I’ve just read the study. They’re not saying why these people have the higher rates of mental health. They’re just noting that they are there. They’re not saying what the mental health issues are, and what is causing them. For example, they haven’t asked if the participants have been victims of abuse, prejudice, etc.
I can see why this isn’t holding up. They’ve just highlighted an issue. There is still a lot more research needed as to why these people are having higher rates of mental health issues.
the control group also seemed dodgy. It wasn’t evenly matched and I’m not sure you could have a control group anyway in this sense, so I’m not sure about the method either.
what this study has done a really good job of is giving other researchers something to research and questions to answer in a very controversial area and begun a conversation, which I applaud them for.

DS is 11.

He has not gone through puberty. He has enormous hands already. They are the same size as mine - but his are more bearable paw like than mine. I have small bones. He's already commenting on how much different they are to his because mine are dainty in comparison.

I suspect it might be because he's male.