Late night surprise about reputation of FWR

[IwantToRetire]

I was on Site Stuff to report back on ongoing freezing and noticed another thread about whether Mumsnet should apologise about deleting threads about ongoing conflict in the Middle East.

And there were some comments about there being a border line between legitimate criticism of Israel's policies and anti semitism. And it is this last that get these threads deleted.

So was surprised to see some comment on this thread saying it was as bad as some threads on FWR, and those particularly at fault are thos with a GC view point.

(Funnily enough AI suggested a title for this thread along the lines of "Are FWR debates judged differently ..... " but now it has hidden its suggestion, just when I was going to use it.)

Oh its come back

"Are sex and gender debates on FWR judged by different standards?"

For all those who think the aggression is only coming from the GC side, this is what happens to women who stand up for their rights.

https://terfisaslur.com

I'll keep posting this til it sinks in

I’m not skirting anything. This thread wasn’t designed for me to be hauled over the coals about my views on trans people.

what I believe is right is completely irrelevant because I’m in no position to influence laws or policy and have no ambition to do so.

Can you point me to a comment where someone’s suggested it’s only from that side?

But the aggression from each side has different degrees, no? You don’t see many GC women issuing death or rape threats or actually assaulting people over their beliefs, don’t?

I think portraying it as a “both sides” issue, is misleading when as pp said, one side is being “robust” in a way that you find offputting, or being mocking, and the other is getting people banned and threatening women with rape and murder. Sometimes in a veiled way, sometimes completely openly.

So do you have a problem with women standing up for their legal rights to single sex spaces?

Do you have a problem with men who want to ignore and override women's rights to single sex spaces?

Who do you think has right on their side here?

And that’s I think why posters here side-eye people who come onto FWR threads to make that claim. Rightly or wrongly.

Have you seen that before? How do you feel about men Dustin out rape and death threats to women who are standing up for their legal rights?

I’ve definitely seen people say nasty things on both sides - including things like “let’s hope it’s not your children attacked by a man posing as a woman to get into a changing room”. Despite my own daughter having been sexually assaulted (albeit not by a transperson in a toilet) so it’s quite a sensitive subject and I’ve probably taken more notice of that phrase than anything else said.

that being said I’m not embroiled in it enough to have a tally of death or rape threats on either side, so can’t accurately comment on that. And linking me to an example of one, wouldn’t mean the other didn’t exist. So I think my only contribution, which was that there’s absolutely nastiness on both sides, remains my position.

Sorry that should have said 'men who dish out'

Is that a no, you can’t link me to
comment where someone’s suggested the aggression is only on one side?

what on earth have I said that leads you to believe I’d support anyone issuing rape threats?

that being said I’m not embroiled in it enough to have a tally of death or rape threats on either side, so can’t accurately comment on that.

So you think that the GC side have been dishing out any rape/death threats here? Are you going to provide evidence for that? As it's a big claim.

Fair enough but it’s a skewed position to take when there are literally thousands of rape and death threats made by transwomen ( just take a look at the terf is a slur website if you don’t believe that) and you’d be lucky to find a handful on the GC side. I’ve never found one actually threatening any such thing myself.

Well the GC side aren't issuing them. Yet to your eyes, it's 'both sides' so how do you account for that?

Do feel free to educate yourself further on the misogyny of this “rights” movement @MyLuckyHelper. It doesn’t seem like you’re particularly well informed, as tbf you acknowledge.

@MyLuckyHelper are you going to answer the question asked.

Are men who think they can change sex right to override the legal position and use women's spaces?

Are women standing up for their legal rights here wrong to do so?

Yes, it is. Par for the course on threads like these.

Being open to discussion means that people with minority views aren't moderated out or personally insulted. It doesn't mean that people who have considered an argument in detail over a long period have to suddenly change their opinion to agree with you.

You keep flapping about.

You said: For all those who think the aggression is only coming from the GC side

Im asking, who’s said that? If someone has, fine I’ve missed it. But you keep answering that question with “well what do you think about this or that”

Absolutely not, nor have I suggested anywhere that that should be the case. I understand fully that not everyone will agree with me. I just want to express my views without being insulted. I’m not insulting other people who hold the view that trans rights should be protected, or that they shouldn’t.

@TriesNotToBeCynical

Especially when people don’t really know what they’re talking about. I think that’s a large part of the problem, women here are expected to be endlessly patient with uninformed people in a way other discussion groups are not. And those people aren’t particularly blessed with humility or patient themselves, in my experience. And drop in belittling comments about women here. That’s always a feature.

“let’s hope it’s not your children attacked by a man posing as a woman to get into a changing room”.

Is a reference to Katie Dolatowski et al, not a rape threat. Is also a statement of the inevitability of a child being hurt at some point if we keep letting men into women's changing rooms.

When did 'I don't care' become a view. You opinions have been criticized, that's not hostility, you inability to take criticism is the problem. People don't like the idea that 'you don't care', the ideology you're indifferent to has implications for many others, you not caring about that is up to you, but if you chose to voice your apathy some people are going to voice their disgust at such a selfish opinion. Not hostile just criticism.

I agree and I think most people realise it’s quite goady.

At the same time allowing other people to live their life without casting judgement did.