My son's girlfriend and pronouns

[BootMaker]

I have a wonderful son, and he has a wonderful girlfriend who calls herself 'him'.

We had what I thought was a great conversation about performative femininity and there are many ways to be a woman.

But I don't think we did.

Ok.

Are you asking for advice?

So are you going to use pronouns that the partner doesn't want you to? Will you keep bringing up the topic with your son as well?

Tedious, isn’t it?

So does your son describe himself as gay?

im fully GC but I’d just not mention any of it and use the preferred pronouns and ignore the weirdness.

Hopefully she'll grow out of it soon enough and, if not, your son will

Just ignore it. It will go away eventually once the brain matures. Just think back to all the embarrassing things you did as a young person and how you cringe at them now!! This is no different.

How old is your son and his gf?

We had what I thought was a great conversation about performative femininity and there are many ways to be a woman.

Good for you.

What other ways are there to be a woman apart from the requirement of a vagina?

Cue the resident tra : but women have been born with a womb. Are you saying they're not women? Continued ad nauseum.

Don't think I've ever met a boy or man who refers to himself as him though. Maybe some billionaire rap artist refers to himself in the third person. But that will be online or in interviews.
Imagine addressing a waiter or bartender with ' Can you tell him where the toilet is please?'

Yes it’s surprising how many men don’t go around saying I’m a man! I guess when you are one you don’t have to keep telling people.

Why do you think having a vagina isn’t enough?

Were you under the impression that if you just explained the "many ways to be a woman" to your son's partner that they would immediately detransition? How embarrassing for you.

I might be tempted to get some pronouns myself. Something a bit niche. But I'd probably just smile and nod and use their name.

Presumably your son is happy with his partner? If she is trans and likes to be known as 'he' then I'd try and oblige. I don't really think any conversations you have are going to make the person suddenly completely reassess their identity?

I didn't say that and it's very weird you'd get that from my point which wasn't anything to do with whether humans can change sex, but rather that it's incredibly naive to imagine a trans man isn't already fully aware there are "many ways to be a woman" or that explaining this to them is suddenly going to cause them to rescind on all their previous life choices, or indeed that it's your job to lecture them about gender roles instead of just behaving normally towards your son's partner.

It's embarrassing for OP because it's likely to be entirely transparent to both her son and his partner what she is trying to achieve by bringing up this topic of conversation.

Not sure what your point is OP, but I only know one way to be a woman and that’s to be born female and all that entails biologically. Everything else is just window dressing.

So you don’t believe TWAW and TMAM then?

What a confusing thread.

OP, can you come back on and provide a bit more detail about what you're looking for from it?

Are you asking for advice on how to support your son and his male-identifying, biologically female girlfriend?

Was the "performative feminity" conversation with your son or his girlfriend? I assume your son.

(Does he use the word "girlfriend" to describe his partner? Presumably not but it's helpful to know if you're looking for advice).

And yes, there are as many ways to "be" a woman as there are ways to "be" a human being. The only requirement for the former is to be a biologically female adult. Nobody can change their biological sex, even if they believe themselves to have a gender identity that differs from it. The only requirement for the latter is to be a living homo sapien. Nobody can change their species, even if they believe they have a furry, therian or otherkin identity that differs from it.

"Being" a woman (or a human), beyond the actual fact of being one, is simply about living your life. It's all down to a combination of personality, learned behaviours, circumstance and choice. "Performative feminity" and "performative masculinity" are a part of that mix, based on stereotypical behaviours of either sex. Most people adopt at least some stereotypical behaviours relating to their sex - that's why they are stereotypical.

I could be a woman (and a human) in the UK or a woman (and a human) in Afghanistan. My biological sex and species remains the same regardless of which clothes I wear, whether I take cross-sex hormones, chop off body parts, "perform masculinity" or "perform femininity" (or walk around on all fours). However, in each of those different locations my way of "being a woman" (the stereotypical, culturally influenced, sex-based behaviours and styles I adopt or reject as a female human) will differ greatly i.e. my experiences of being a woman will differ because women in Afghanistan don't have anywhere near the same freedom of choice as we do in the UK.

Anyway, without context about what you're looking for from this thread OP, it's difficult to add further comment.

Edited for typo.

This doesn't feel relevant to the thread and it seems unfair to take OP's thread off topic by turning it into a discussion about my personal views.

My point about OP's behaviour being a bit naive and embarrassing stand regardless.

Thought so.

Glad you agree

I don’t. You’ve just clarified that you think humans can change sex by swerving the question.

My take from the OP is that she believes her son’s girlfriend will always be a woman, however, presenting in a masculine way is fine. Her son’s girlfriend doesn’t have to agree with her and very likely doesn’t. She’s still a woman though.