Are things moving in the right direction?

[Manchesteruser]

With the announcement of the Olympics ban, the WI announcement, the Darlington nurses etc things may be going in the right direction...

But then we have the Sandie Peggie outcome yet to be fully sorted, the Leonardo case, the Hampstead pools and the bloody Green party...

Do people things might be moving in the direction of common sense?

Yes they are.

The IOC decision feels particularly significant. Because its global and its sports and it has a lot of public support.

The whole Trans nonsense requires complete buy in to survive. Once you concede that these men are not women in certain circumstances, the whole thing becomes too incoherent to work.

The diehards will continue to push their stupidity, but the majority of the population are waking up and will not tolerate a situation where a man is a man in sports but a woman in a public bathroom. It's all too ridiculous.

Pure Gym are now reverting their single sex changing rooms to biological reality.

There's been progress, but we have a long way to go. We owe a huge debt of gratitude to FWS for the SC decision. But there are plenty of "woke" organisations like my employer, acting as though it didn't happen, proclaiming that people can use the toilet they're most comfortable using, wittering on about "pregnant people", carefully avoiding words like woman and breastfeeding. She/her and they/them on badges and email signatures. Celebrating Pride but making it all about trans.

We shouldn't forget that there is a whole generation, possibly two generations, of young people who have grown up with this, and to them it's normal and gender ideology is the truth. They won't want to let go of it easily. The middle aged male fetishists using this ideology to legitimise their prancing around in public in fishnets and miniskirts won't give up easily either, and they still have huge support from useful idiots who want to Be Kind.

Some of the more extreme lunacy has gone. Remember all the neopronoun nonsense? Lists of pronouns like ze/zir on web pages and in training courses. Pupgender, faegender and bungender, remember those? Pronouns pup/pupself etc. The teenagers claiming to be these "genders" probably just grew up and got bored with it, but at the time they were indulged. So we've certainly seen some of the extremes fall away without fanfare. The stubborn core that remains, the parts that succeeded in becoming mainstream, will be around for much longer.

Hmm not sure quite yet, when I see the next two threads below yours

Never let them slip 'cis' past you. Tell them about about Volkar Sigusch, the inventor of the term 'cis sexual'. Tell them about his approval of sex between adults and children. Tell them why you are not prepared to be defined by such an individual.

grokipedia.com/page/Volkmar_Sigusch

The new IOC policy is the big one for sports because they are authoritative and it will have a ripple effect. The howls of outrage from the "human rights experts" were entirely predictable, but that will settle. Other (cowardly) orgs will hopefully get around to reviewing their policies now.

Others, like Parkrun, will continue to prioritise "inclusion" over fairness, but they will increasingly look like outliers.

In other areas, I think it will take at least a few more years, plus more legal action, to see sense return, particularly in the public sector and civil service. There have been glimmers of hope at work though. I have noticed that the loudest TRA bullies have had their wings clipped and I don't think they would now get away with the type of behaviour that they did a couple of years ago.

I think the UK, in general is ahead of the curve when it comes to pushing back against self ID. But what will be interesting to see over the next few years is what other countries will do as recently there has been pushback in Portugal and India, and I know from my family back in Ireland that there is a growing sense of unease about the self ID legislation there, although most Irish politicians have their heads firmly buried in the sand.

Thanks!
But that is a very long article, and rather indigestible. I appreciate your summary

Five or 6 years ago, women were being sacked or cancelled for relatively mild GC comments, and Forstater hadn't succeeded. Now it is against the law to do this. FWS in the Supreme Court UK had not established the meaning of sex, now there has been a very clear analysis and ruling. From an outside perspective, despite some major foot-dragging, the UK has had a massive amount of change since then building on those events (tribunal wins, organisations changing policies, judicial reviews, changes in the conversations).

At an international level the IOC one is massive and is likely to put the topic in the spotlight.

In the US, the polling showing most Democrats disagree with TRA policies is likely to start to change the conversation. At the moment, it's still portrayed as a Republican view to disagree, but the more people on the left realise they are not alone, and its not even a minority viewpoint, the more free they feel to speak up. This is likely to gradually bring change in the blue states. Law suits are likely to have a big impact there also.

That.

They could and they might. But they would have to do so knowing it would be very much in the public eye, there could be no 'it's just an administrative change', no 'no debate' and it's a post Isla Bryson world. Doing it now would be a much bolder move than what various countries brought in between 2010-15.

Definitely. But it is going to take a long time to weed out the activists and change policies and guidelines across all branches of government, charities etc.
I am hopeful that it will get to the point that it becomes like an avalanche.
It's frustrating, but don't lose sight of how far we have come!

Yes I think so, you can at least talk about things like sport and changing rooms now without fear (and most people agree).
Also I have great chats with my 14 year old daughter about this stuff and she thinks it’s nonsense and sees the problems, kids her age are sick of having trans stuff shoved down their throats at school

The current crop of teenagers seem to be on the whole rejecting this so that’s a real step forward.

The delay in issuing the EHRC guidance is the only fig leaf they have for inaction. It is now beyond ridiculous that they have sat on it for almost a year claiming the 11(?) changed pages required careful scrutiny. Either shit or get off the pot and tell us why. I can see us taking it back to court to force them to enact the law. They can explain themselves in a court of law if they won't to us (considering we just had a Judicial review and the Guidance was found to be entirely lawful it shouldn't be a long case).

The Meta ruling this week isn't insignificant either. In ruling that they'd deliberately made social media addictive and they had liability for it, Meta and YouTube find themselves in really difficult water and the same applies to other social media.

They deliberately fed people algorithms to keep them on the hook. They were deliberately extreme to whip up a frenzy and this made people go down rabbit holes of harm.

We know that how trans issues have been amplified through social media isn't insignificant. The cultlike nature of it and the importance of some of these networks in extremist type behaviour is only getting more apparent. Big questions are starting to be asked.

Women had to work hard to break through a lot of this and fight these thought terminating clichés.

When we start to see detransitioners coming out the woodwork there's now another legal avenue open, if they find themselves shit out of luck with expiry of liability for medical procedures.

We are back into the land of insurance and liability driving policy and behaviour.

Meta is already shitting itself about how many $$$$ this might eventually add up to in claims against it.

This development is probably as important as any other we've seen but I'm not sure how many people have drawn the dots up yet on how it's significant to this particular subject and to how it's inevitably going to affect the landscape of things.

It's also relevant to Tiktok, twitter and Bluesky and although they were not named in this case, they are also massively affected by the ruling.

It's an area to watch with popcorn.

I share this concern HOWEVER it's still 2026 and the next GE isn't until 2029. We have lots of unresolved court cases before then to process, we have a lot of young people who will increasingly start to see the bullshit and we now have an Olympics to go through before then (which will help Australia go into complete meltdown). And never underestimate just how fucking batshittery Green candidates are and how there will be an inevitable implosion on that score at least to some degree because the structure and organisation of the green party. (The LDs are effectively run out of garden sheds and home offices too - this set up means they and the greens are exceptionally naive, exceptionally vulnerable and totally unprofessional when it comes to the crunch).

So a lot can happen in this period. As they say "a year is a long time in politics".

Also coalitions are fragile. And if we get a coalition it's because no one can get a majority. Then in lies the issue.

This gives power to dissenters - hello Theresa May era. Even Boris Johnson who had what was known as a super majority faced a huge amount of problems internally and a lot of stuff he wanted to pass didn't because of dissent within the ranks and masses of horse trading before it even reached the commons floor.

Getting very controversial policy through parliament in a coalition is no easy feat. Attempts to do it will blow up massively. We can ask Nicola ALL about this.

The subject is utterly toxic and will only continue to become more so because ultimately deep down no one believes it.

to them it's normal and gender ideology is the truth. They won't want to let go of it easily. The middle aged male fetishists using this ideology to legitimise their prancing around in public in fishnets and miniskirts won't give up easily either, and they still have huge support from useful idiots who want to Be Kind.
This summer might see the peak male fishnets if it is warm.
@RedToothBrush is right to highlight the Social Media case in the USA.
In the Sunday Times is a large article on how the SNP has bought support from charities by using generous grants and sub-contracts. They mention Drug treatment hubs as well as the Rape Crisis Centre.
Perhaps we are going to see a more ethical approach in many ways.
Last week there were fashion features on suits and ties for GenZ men.
Bristol still continues it's own sweet way of course.

Men in women's sport was never popular, or ever made sense. Transition children was never seen as sane.

So the public always knew that trans isn't inate, and sex doesn't change.

I think the public tolerated the idea that if a man made himself look as much of a women as he could, and didn't act like an entitled creep, he could use women's spaces.

A lot of that came from the idea that these men are vulnerable, have had a 'meaningful' transition and didn't want to be clocked.

But TRA has challenged that perception. How can we have trans days of visibility, men claiming to be women on TV flashing their dicks, and then say they are a vulnerable group who've had surgery, and dont want to be noticed?

A left coalition will want to roll back women's rights and force male inclusion, but I dont know how they can do it? The public dont believe the '30 years trans, never been clocked' and thats not what TRA want. They want to be noticed.

The only way I think they could is to move away from sex as a PC and towards gender identity.

Lobbying through charities has been a concern floating around for a good long while.

Prediction: I fully expect this to blow up a lot more in the coming years especially when we get to the later stages of a run up to an election and with a Reform election campaign fully in motion.

The Omnicause issue doesn't do this any favours on this. Fashionable causes are very much all the rage. Food banks in Blackpool don't get quite the same traction and social media credit points as Gaza for example and it'd drive the divide.

Also there are election rules that apply for some groups and charity organisations which are liable to blow up in faces too - with groups and individuals who aren't fully aware of them making social media comments they aren't allowed to and it then becoming a political football (cos it will be looked at closely)

I fully expect this to be a rising political arc in British politics. It's been brewing for a while but I really don't think it's run it's full course by any stretch of the imagination. The problem is there is a huge amount of resentment about how some issues get funding but deprived areas don't get it.

Tension over virtue signalling over practical on the ground action is very much something that's not going aware anytime soon.

An attempt to do this in parliament is unlikely to get as far as people think. Not without HUGE political fuss.

@RedToothBrush , An attempt to do this in parliament is unlikely to get as far as people think. Not without HUGE political fuss.
Do they have the parliamentary time?

It won't happen before the election.

Watch those YouGov polls. By my reckoning we have time for the publication of two more before the election.

The polls will terrify Labour especially when it comes to transition of under 16s. The LDs will have half an eye. The Greens will be too busy with their heads up their arses on social media.

Those YouGov polls will not be insignificant.

There's certainly a lot of left leaning government's all over the world they can copy cat from, I think Aus, German and Spain have supplanted sex with gender in their legislation. Not so much scary as outright sickening to think of. 🤢

This old podcast series is excellent on how brilliantly Stonewall captured all the important institutions - it is a frightening lesson on maintaining critical thinking when looking at what seems to be orthodoxy...
Nolan Investigates

It’s been a good week and I’m obviously delighted by the progress, and deeply grateful to the women who’ve fought these battles, whether they won, lost, or simply pushed the line forward for others.

But I’ve also got a growing feeling of unease. I can already sense a narrative forming that downplays what’s happened, “it wasn’t that bad,” or that it was all the result of a few overreacting, hysterical women.

Yes, it’s great that, legally and politically, reason seems to be reasserting itself. We know that most people never accepted the idea that sex can be changed, and thank goodness that is now being said out loud. But that doesn’t erase the reality of the past few years.

Women have altered their behaviour. We’ve stayed silent, self-censored, and stepped back out of fear - of social consequences, professional fallout, and worse. Our attempts at safeguarding have led to us being called bigots and Nazi’s. And beyond that, there are still serious questions about the impact on children and young people questions that need scrutiny.

I really want to see journalists dig deeper and tell the stories properly. Today’s piece in The Times on the SNP and charities is a step in the right direction, but this isn’t a uniquely Scottish issue. The ideology is prevalent throughout the public and charity sectors throughout the UK and in much of the corporate world too.

Sorry, maybe I’m just feeling angry, but I don’t want the last 10 years to be airbrushed away like they didn’t happen.

ETA bold removed. No idea what happened there.