Please help — tween now trans?

[StrugglingMama2]

Hi there. I’m really struggling and wonder if others have been in this place. We’re a family of three and my daughter and I have always been close. She’s always been more on the “tomboy” side but also enjoyed “girlie” things and now watches “girlie” YouTubers and gets really into their shopping, cute characters, crochet, etc. She’s never seemed upset by her body but does protest about bras. In fourth grade she decided to go by her initials and “they/them”. Everyone now knows them by that new name. Well, earlier in the week, they texted me that they are trans, now use he/him pronouns and a third name. They have two close friends who are not trans (one now uses xi/she pronouns and I’m told the other is pansexual). These two friends were very excited about the text and apparently already use their new name and pronouns. We are an LGBT-friendly family but these two friends are thoroughly obsessed with all things LGBT to the point where it’s all they talk about and anything they see with any colors on it they refer to it as gay and cheer. But anyway, my main concern is losing my child. I feel like I’m having a nervous breakdown. Though it hurt, It made sense to me when they wanted to drop their given name in favor of initials and use they/them. But this I am really struggling with. Anyone out there on the other side of this? I love my child . Please help 🩷

Thank you for this. We are quite close thankfully—together all the time. At a young age she asked if she could be a boy, then used the term non-binary and they/them pronouns, and then this week texted me about being trans. Even in elementary school she was asking about stopping her period and “top surgery” because she heard about it at school. May I ask if your situation was similar? I understand if you don’t care to share.

Thank you. I’m struggling to move past it because she has asked before (twice as a younger person) if she could be a boy; she even asked about “top surgery” b/c a kid in elementary school told her about it 🥺 (I shut it down of course). I feel this could be a sexual orientation thing that will be realized later, but my mind keeps going to people like Mariah/Leon from Sister Wives (do you have that show?) and I’m scared to death.

How’s it going OP? Have you spoken with her?

but my mind keeps going to people like Mariah/Leon from Sister Wives (do you have that show?) and I’m scared to death.

What are you scared of? That she will be trans, she will take cross sex hormones, make herself infertile and have a double mastectomy? You said you were a trans-friendly family. This is what that looks like. Either you support this ideology or you don't.

I have every sympathy for you if you are against this. I am too.

But if you support it then I don't think you can complain when it happens to your own child.

Sure, I don't mind. For me, I specifically remember one moment: I was sitting with my mum in a doctor's waiting room and saw a woman get up and leave (she was walking downstairs, and her cleavage just bounced - sorry, there is no other term to say it). And I remember thinking to myself at that moment: No, oh God no, please no, not me. Was about 8-9 years old. But being quite sheltered I had no idea about biology (I thought babies were born through the navel for instance), so I thought as a female one could simply refuse to get that body part (I did not even know the term for it). And that I would refuse for sure, and I wondered why women would even choose to look like this. Because if I had a chest like that, I would be bouncing downstairs like that woman one day, I wouldn't be able to run around anymore, and for some reason I also thought it would hinder me climbing trees (?!).

Also - and in hindsight I think this was crucial - my mother had a cup C-cleavage after having several kids (she lost one, too), and I saw her being physically abused more than once. So I guess I merged these two things in my head without being aware of it: having cleavage, being a mum, procreating, and being abused, being stressed all the time, cooking and cleaning, crying to no end, and no fun ever. Naturally I didn't want to sign up for that.

Later, as a teen in my school, I just noticed that all of the boys and all of the male teachers (yeah) seemed to have one type, and one type only: frail, ballett dancer-looking girls, not too tall, somewhat androgynous, looking like they could break, frankly looking childlike. (I'm from continental Europe.) So that was the pipeline into Americas Next Topmodel, which was the pipeline into anorexia and worse grades, which was the pipeline into thinking I don't want to be a girl at all. Because being "trans" would be the lighthouse in an ocean of doom options, it would allow me to cut my hair and wear loose shirts and sneakers most days, and there would simply be no other way on earth to be able to do those things without being called a lesbian, which I'm not. It would allow me to escape from people's pornsickness as well.

Not saying it's anything like this for your daughter, though, especially since she's so very young. Everyone's got their own way of thinking. Just give her as much love as you can, that's the only thing that gets anything done, really. Hopefully she'll also be loved by other people, along the way, and as she grows up, it will make her come to her senses.

(Also try to cut her time spent on social media if you can.) Crossing my fingers for your family.

Hi OP, I hope some more US based posters come on to give some advice as the situation in the UK is really different.

In my experience the UK is much more liberal than the US about gender expression and sexuality. It seems totally normal to most people in the UK that if a young girl has typical “boy” interests and fashion sense, and perhaps grows up to be lesbian or bisexual, that is an absolutely normal way to be a girl and doesn’t require changing pronouns, documents or your body.

But in the US in my experience it’s much more polarised between communities like yours, where everyone needs a label, and communities where girls are heavily pressured to act a certain way. Maybe you’ve seen the feminism/comservatism/gender ideology diagram? deadwildroses.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/radfem.png

The US tends to be in the red and yellow rings. Most people on this forum think the green ring is correct.

But it’s a lot to ask your 11 year old daughter to bring gender critical attitudes to a community where everyone thinks the yellow ring is the only way people like your daughter can be free to express themselves.

Every time your daughter gets any hint that it isn’t ok for her to be herself (clothing, interests, sexuality) while being female, that will push her more strongly into thinking that identifying as a boy is the solution. You’re going to have to read a lot and figure out what you believe, so that you can take a stand for her that she can be as stereotypically masculine as she wants to be, and that is all part of the wonderful variety of ways to be female.

You mention having gay friends. Try to make friends with some older butch women who have come to terms with being female. My wife spent much of her twenties and thirties wondering about transitioning, but in the end she carried our child and she was very glad all her female biology is intact. Some of our friends with gender questioning daughters have asked my wife to be around more as a role model, which has helped the parents to have illuminating conversations with their daughters about female masculinity.

On the sexuality point, I knew I was lesbian at 12, and I found it very upsetting when people told me I was too young to know as I felt they were telling me it wasn’t ok. If your daughter tells you she likes girls, or is pansexual, don’t use a label for her (because she might want a different one as she gets older and you don’t want her to be trapped in the label she’s given herself) but don’t express any doubt either - thank her for telling you, and tell her that you don’t mind who she dates when she’s older so long as they make her happy.

Comment approvingly on same-sex relationships as you would opposite-sex ones, and don’t say anything about dating and relationships that implies you reject your daughter’s description of herself. Lesbian/bi and gender-questioning girls can get very offended for example by rules that girls can stay over but boys can’t. You’ll need a gender neutral formulation anyway if she has lots of trans identifying friends, or every sleepover will become a sex/gender fight (Why can Adam sleep over but Amy can’t? Because Adam’s a girl and Amy’s a boy. You’re a transphobe and I hate you etc.)

Good luck!

Bayswater Support Group?

https://www.bayswatersupport.org.uk

Support your child. Spend a tonne of warm positive time with her. Find activities you both can do together. Set limits that you are comfortable too with names and pronouns and boundaries around surgery and medication.

Encourage other friendships outside of this pretty self absorbed trio and wait and see. We had it with a big group of DD’s friends aged 11-13. They all to a girl grew out of it. It was a self exploration phase highly influenced by a social contagion and they were all a bit quirky, some of them ND.

@HoppityBun thats the one. Thanks

This was very trendy in my DDs class at this age. One or two parents went all in and still have trans kids (now aged 14/15) with all kinds of additional MH issues. The ones who dropped it sooner had families who just made sure their identity had other parts, hobbies, other friends outside school. Trans became a hard work and quite boring thing they moved on from.

So I wouldn't go all in, talking at length, getting her books. I'd distract, get her relationship with her body to be more how strong it is and show her lots of different ways to be a girl. Also, call out the sexism every time it sneaks in, until she makes the link herself. Dont say trans is sexist outright, but correct every stereotype gently "that sounds quite sexist,women can do x"

Good luck OP, I'm genuinely surprised how quickly this passed in my DDs year, but it was stressful for this caught up in it.

I was a Tom boy when I was a child, always wearing tracksuits, no makeup, if I were a teen now they'd probably try and label me as trans or non binary or some such nonsense. It really concerns me people put these stupid ideas in kids heads. Parents should not affirm any of this. Nothing wrong if your child is actually gay but many just saying it to be part of a clique now and it is sexualising children from far too young an age. I remember my child said two of he friends said they were bisexual at 10! I said they don't even know what that is, they are just repeating things they have heard. Just because you are surrounded by idiotic liberal parents does not mean you need to go along with this. Do right by your child. Tell her she's a girl, it's fine to be a Tom boy and if she thinks she may be gay later you don't have an issue but she's 11 and likely just being caught up with the contagion. Just don't even entertain the idea as it just feeds into the nonsense.

Yes and it’s going well! I’m still a little jittery on the inside but trying to take it one day at a time and not go straight to doom-and-gloom scenarios. I really had to take a step back, pull myself together, and realize that I’m the parent. We have all had a nice time together as a family this weekend and I can tell she’s actually relieved to have some normalcy. She’s talking to me freely, laughing, being silly—being a kid! I think she still understands that she is safe with us and our home remains her safe place to land. I had an epiphany yesterday when I happened to drive by one of the friend’s houses (they live on our street so I drive by daily!) and saw her standing there having a little upset moment with her parents as they were getting ready to go somewhere. Anyway, it hit me that this is a child and WE are the parents with life experience and more developed brains. Just because we don’t know all the lingo doesn’t mean we’re excluded from the conversation. This board has been a lifesaver. I am so grateful for all of the feedback and perspectives. Thank you all so very much 🙏❤️

That's a lovely update from you OP. May you and yours fare well, and I'd love to hear about future developments

My daughter sounds similar to yours and went through a trans phase from about 10 - 12. My approach was to largely ignore it - happy to buy her 'boys' clothes if that's what she prefers (and always had been - frequently bought boys clothing for both my daughters if it was better quality and I / they preferred it), but day to day I did very little. Well meaning but clueless village primary school contacted us and said they were thinking of seeking advice from Stonewall, so obviously I urged them not to do that, pointed them towards transgender trend instead, and bought a copy of My Body Is Me for their school library. It was a bit trickier once she got to secondary school as they were already set up for affirming, but I tried to avoid buying into the idea that this was worthy of attention while gently pushing back.
When she asked me to use masculine pronouns I said I wouldn't be doing that as I didn't believe anyone had the right to tell other people what words they should use, and as far as I was concerned she would always be my daughter. But I also said that if she could persuade her friends to do so, she could crack on.
I aimed to convey the message that she could be and do whatever she wanted but that her sex was not up for debate, that she could not expect other people to play along with a fiction, and that her gender identity was one of the least interesting things about her. It seemed to work. After a couple of years she quietly dropped it, and a bit later told me that she thought the whole thing was ridiculous.

That's great to hear OP - well done.
This ideology focuses on alienating and excluding parents from their children's lives with too many useful idiots in schools stepping way outside their professional skills and expertise by dabbling in transitioning other people's children. See @Throughahedgebackwards posts above re a primary and secondary school.

It's dangerous assault on parents - and as is often pointed out, children who are alienated from their parents and end up in the care of the State do terribly in terms of all measured life outcomes.

It's unforgivable that professionals have pushed this at the behest of the dodgy adult trans lobbyists and abandoned everything we know about how well supported families are best placed to keep children safe.

Maybe not at 11 - almost every vid Buck posts has a selection of sex toys in the background, to say nothing of what a kid could find if they went searching for Buck's other conten!. Marcus is a bit too, er, confronting for such a young kid as well.

Thank you for sharing. I’m struggling this evening. I thought we had a good week then she just texted me (on the way to a camping trip) to please use the new name and he/him pronouns because “that is who I am” and she added if I didn’t like it to “suck it up”. She’s in the car with other kids so I don’t know if she was encouraged or did it on her own. I’m heartbroken because we are very close…and so now of course I’m worried about the whole thing. Luckily my husband is a chaperone on the trip and will talk to her and call me back. I don’t think I can handle this…it’s just too much. I just feel hopeless again.

Sorry…wanted to add that I’m also feeling hopeless again because as I read some suggested resources they refer to RAGD (rapid onset gender dysphoria) which they say is defined by never having had gender issues, but my child asked if she could be a boy a couple years ago and has always been a tomboy. Mind you she also likes some stereotypical girlie things….and she’s never said “I’m a boy” rather “can I be a boy”. And she has ADHD which is also a criterion for RAGD…

I'd not engage with texts as a form of communication about "difficult issues" As you realise, she's in the car with peers likely pressurising her to challenge you. A simple. "Thanks - have a lovely time. Let's talk when you're back. Love you xx" establishes a boundary - yours. My guess is they're likely "coaching her" and waiting to see your response. A form of entertainment for them as they dabble in your mother daughter relationship.

And being young, she's trying to dominate you, egged on by these other girls who are over involved in all this.

It's typical teenage behaviour but with a dangerous edge as transactiism thrives on alienating children from parents and persuading children that these life altering behaviours / beliefs are positive - when they're precisely the opposite.

When discussions are had, make them face to face and without childish threats aimed at you.

I know this is easier said than done. But she is only little: try not to take this phase too seriously.

It's often said; this is a marathon, not a sprint. You will not resolve this in one happy family trip. You can be heartbroken - and come here to say so - but she doesn't need to know that.

She is learning to be a teenager; she is learning to separate herself from you. She is testing the waters - finding out who she is separate from who you are. This is a natural part of growing up. Try to view the trans business as you would view any other teenage rebellion or obsession; just as pop band posters will come and go, this too will pass. Don't rush to diagnose it.

My daughter came out with a similar letter when she was about 12. My first reaction was "well, that's very nice dear. I'm sure me and dad will try our hardest to say "they" instead of "she". But I'm not telling the dentist!". And it turns out, six years later, that was probably the best thing I could have said. I avoided using pronouns at all for about a year, slowly dropping back in to saying "she" because I couldn't take it any longer. Gradually, gradually, she has realised that she's lesbian. I am very angry at her secondary school for planting this bunkum in her head, which discouraged her from trying out early lesbian relationships. But here we are. As a family, we are still well in the woods - my young adult son, nearly 20, has now declared a trans identity. And that's a lot harder because he's an adult. So I tread carefully with this stuff at home, but don't pander to it because I wouldn't pander to any other teenage rebellion.

No doubt your daughter is being egged on by friends; but no doubt teens have been egged on by friends since forever. My daughter had similar friends to yours; one of them was a particular trial, and was clearly being sucked into the trans rabbit hole because she was unhappy about her parents' divorce. But there was no need to pull my daughter down with her. Thank goodness, my daughter had other friends; we encouraged those friendships and did everything we possibly could to build up those.

You've already had such great advice on this thread. I found it helpful to keep notes of useful advice and phrases, and re-read as necessary. It is a marathon not a sprint - but she's only little, there's an awful lot of growing to do yet. You'll get there.

Edited to add: oops, that was a very wordy way of saying what @MrsOvertonsWindow said in only a few words...

A simple. "Thanks - have a lovely time. Let's talk when you're back. Love you xx" establishes a boundary I couldn't love this advice more.

Would it be worth challenging the "suck it up" rudeness at a later time? As in, "Yes, we talk things through in this family but we always do it respectfully"?

(This is a world away from my Gen X upbringing. My parents' word was law even when they were wrong and there was no "backchat" allowed).

Thank you!!! Excellent advice 🙏

Many many thanks! Great tip to make and re-read notes of advice given here previously. Having grown up with a mother who catastrophized absolutely everything, I often have to check myself and remember to breathe. I so appreciate the advice!

Thank you! GenX here too and I am frequently taken aback by GenZ and Gen Alpha behaving as if they think they’re adults as well. One issue I have to work on is maintaining that authority—my mom was not a kind person and I’m often trying not to be her with my daughter…but I can’t over correct. Thank you for your help and support 🩷

Adult authority is incredibly important. It safeguards and puts in place boundaries for children. Often we can establish those boundaries with a "we'll deal with this later".

Children / teenagers revel in the drama and potentially derail parents by trying to set their agenda for us. It's known as secondary behaviour - you ask a child to do something and they respond with "it's not fair", "why me?" etc. Then you find yourself in an argument about fairness or why them, rather than just repeating your reasonable expectation "It's your turn to clear the table. Thanks."

Trans extremism thrives on this approach - drama, hyperbole and delusion. Anything rather than address facts, reality and other people's needs