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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Uta Frith, women, autism, and what Dr Stock, Helen Lewis etc think...

443 replies

Missproportionate · 05/03/2026 12:16

Helen Lewis and Kathleen Stock have both commented on this article on X, both slightly ambiguously, as if they aren't sure what to think.

Wondered what anyone on here thinks about this? I am also ambiguous, but full disclosure: I have been diagnosed with autism at the age of 50, I haven't told very many people because I see a lot of identifying as 'neurospicy' online, and it seems to be connected to the whole 'I'm not normal, oh no I'm special' idea that I think has parallels with the queer community. I don't want to be on that bandwagon, I just want to make sense of myself.

I was diagnosed through a long process with several professionals, and a 3 hour interview with me, and a 3 hour interview with my mum about me as a child. I fitted in all the separate areas of criteria. I doubt people I work with or interact with superficially would guess ( but they may find me irritating or insensitive or interrupting - I find it hard to tell).

But it worries me a bit that women who are autistic might be seen as 'not real' and lumped in with the trans community in some way. But then how does that
then work? because as has been observed many times, girls who present with gender dysphoria are very often diagnosed/undiagnosed autistic. I think we should be leaning into attending to the autism in girls, and how an autistic girl might find being trans attractive as a way to 'solve' their feelings of not belonging. If we start to question the genuineness of their autism, we risk failing those girls even more. Don't we?

I don't know what to think.

Uta Frith interview in TLS

Uta Frith, women, autism, and what Dr Stock, Helen Lewis etc think...
OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
Missproportionate · 08/03/2026 13:43

MotherofPufflings · 08/03/2026 12:49

Thanks for this. Are you able to summarise what the thread is saying maybe? I don't know whether it's just that I don't understand enough about psychiatry/neuroscience, but I found it pretty much incomprehensible 😆

The thread on X about masking?

try this

Dr Sanil Rege FRANZCP | MRCPsych
@sanilrege
Mar 7, 2026 at 9:45 AM
1 / 18
Masking is not performance. It is protection. 1/16 Masking is ( or was) trending on Twitter. It’s also increasingly heard in clinical practice. As with most phenomena that suddenly become popular, it can be misunderstood ( and are applied broadly) “Masking” is not one thing. ( yes it was originally described as social camouflaging in ASD) It can be heterogeneous. ( in its functions) Let’s explore it from a neurobiological and psychological perspective

2 / 18
1/ The first ‘mistake’ is to treat masking as though it simply means “pretending.” It doesn’t. Masking is often a functional adaptation. A way of regulating arousal, preserving attachment, maintaining safety, and meeting needs in environments where direct expression may not feel possible.
3 / 18
2/ One useful way to understand masking is through interoception. Interoception is the brain’s capacity to detect and interpret internal bodily signals: heart rate tension fatigue gut sensations breathlessness heat pain the bodily component of emotion In simple terms: how the brain reads the body from within.
4 / 18
2/ In conditions where interoceptive sensitivity is altered ; prediction errors are high = high arousal = masking becomes a strategy to manage arousal recruiting Top down modulation to manage arousal
5 / 18
3/ This is why Masking can be more prominent in ASD because baseline arousal is high - interoceptive sensitivity is altered. It’s also why ASD is associated with higher rates of MECFS / Long Covid and pain syndromes When the brain’s interoceptive system (e.g., insula + anterior cingulate) isn’t giving clear early warnings, people can keep functioning ‘masking’ until the system tips into: - shutdown / meltdown -alexithymia (“I can’t tell what I feel”) -autonomic surges (“it hits all at once”) I’ve covered interoceptive blindness here

youtube.com
ADHD Burnout & Autistic Meltdowns: The Hidden Brain Circuit
This video explains how interoceptive blindness — the brain’s inability to read internal body signals — fuels burnout, meltdowns, and emotional dysregulation...
6 / 18
4 / Masking in ASD may reflect a growing split between the person’s embodied, affective self and a more rational, externally organised self built to manage the social world It’s what can happen when the social self becomes over-developed in the service of adaptation.

7 / 18
5/ That is where masking links to the idea of a False Self. ( Winnicott) …… I was able to see the defensive nature of the False Self. Its defensive function is to hide and protect the True Self, whatever that may be. ( Winnicott ,1960) A shift from an immediate, embodied, felt self toward a more abstract, disembodied, socially compliant self. Ultimately to meet the needs of others and the environment.

8 / 18
6/ That top-down modulation can take many forms: -hyperfocus -over-preparation -perfectionism -constant activity -excessive exercise -social scripting -over-intellectualisation -rigid self-monitoring In clinical practice the above will be given labels But understanding the phenomenon is a different skill.

9 / 18
7/ This is why masking is often misunderstood. (And can be misused ) People see the output and assume the internal state matches it. It doesn’t. A person may appear controlled while exerting enormous effort to stay organised, coherent, acceptable, or connected. The performance gets mistaken for ease.
10 / 18
8/ This is crucial in clinical practice because of the impact of countertransference. When someone appears polished, articulate, or socially skilled, the clinician may begin to doubt the depth of distress, the diagnosis, or the authenticity of what is being presented. Or worse - we may label them ‘manipulative’ or performing If that is not recognised, it can significantly weaken the therapeutic alliance. The task is to recognise what the mask evokes in us, so we do not mistake our reaction for the patient.
11 / 18
9/ Why is the mask used? Usually because it serves a function. The function may be to: -avoid rejection -maintain attachment -reduce shame -prevent conflict -stay safe -remain competent -gain validation - keep distress from becoming visible -hold the self together The mask protects the person underneath.
12 / 18
10/ And this is also why it is hard to simply “take the mask off.” Because the mask is rarely just a superficial behaviour. It is often built on automatised predictions shaped across childhood and adolescence: -This is how I stay safe. -This is how I stay liked. -This is how I avoid being too much…. So the mask becomes organised into the person’s way of functioning.
13 / 18
11/ Masking in ASD is known to be associated with core automatic social scripts but also comes at a cognitive cost - a cost that results in the service of the external world at the expense of the internal ( emotional world) This often forms the foundation of burnout ..
14 / 18
12/ A consciously worn mask can easily be misread as ‘manipulative’. But often what is being called “manipulative” is a person who has learnt that direct expression of need, vulnerability, anger, fear, or confusion is too risky. This is automatised. Like the person who repeatedly breaks rules ; when asked how they met needs - ‘By being bad’ So the self organises around performance, adaptation, or pleasing…. Not because the person is false. But because the strategy once worked. The other side of the mask is ‘non-existent’ *That is not to say that manipulation can’t exist.
15 / 18
13/ That is why the right question is not: “Are they acting?” It is: What is the mask protecting? What happens if it comes off? What need is it meeting? Because many masks exist to avoid anticipated pain.
16 / 18
14/ Clinically, Different masks emerge from different combinations of: -arousal -interoception -top-down control -attachment -development -temperament -shame -personality organisation -emotional need….
17 / 18
15/ And perhaps the most important point: The opposite of masking is not ‘true authenticity at all times.’ Most of what we do we don’t ‘know’ That forced smile in a party you don’t want to be at? False or ? Or the superficial talk? The spontaneous gesture is the true self in action ( Winnicott , 1960) For many people, the capacity to remove the mask safely only develops when the environment becomes more predictable, attuned, and emotionally survivable. In other words: safety precedes unmasking.
18 / 18
16/ So when “masking” is talked about on here, or heard in clinic, it is worth asking what it is doing. Not asking whether the mask is real. Because the function of the mask is often not deception. It is protection. Yes the word masking is being applied broadly beyond ASD ( the original term ) - but as clinicians the question remains - what function does it serve ? END

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OP posts:
Fearfulsaints · 08/03/2026 13:50

I just wanted to clarify that I think masking us something all people do and doesn't signify someone has autism in itself.

I was thinking about what masking might look like in the autistic population when compared to other types of masking. Was it different or the same?

I guess I ended up back at the core deficits of communication issues and repetitive behaviours are what are being masked. My son looked like he was communicating. He wasn't. He isnt masking he is anxious about the comms, he masked genuine communication issues.

In dementia I guess they try to hide cognitive decline?

In mood im trying to mask the mood im in. Im stressed about ehcp process. Im portraying happy and relaxed to the kids.

This is just a Sunday musing! Not a well thought through hypothesis.

Slimtoddy · 08/03/2026 13:56

Not sure I understand all the posts here as I think some of you might be experts and your language is a bit technical for me but I think I get the gist.

I do find masking interesting. I work in an organisation where like many organisations there is a culture based on expected behaviours. As a result people don't tend to challenge and respect the hierarchy a bit too much. However occasionally I get the chance to work with people diagnosed autistic and it can be very refreshing. They just say what they think and often this leads to improvement in whatever we are working on. But sometimes they get into trouble and complaints are made against them for their bluntness and how it's made people feel. This then creates a stressful situation for all. These people have not learnt the art of masking but in truth we benefit from their direct analysis of whatever we are dealing with.

WarriorN · 08/03/2026 13:56

Have seen the Fisher/Frith interview described as "harmful rhetoric" online. It is so redolent of the trans #nodebate debacle: "to challenge my thinking is to challenge my identity is to challenge my right to exist".

One key message Firth said in the Fisher interview was that rigorous research isn’t happening enough. This underpinned all her points.

That part has been glazed over and ignored. Or various papers thrown about.

Her point is how much they’ve stood up to scrutiny. And most haven’t had scrutiny.

We have discussed here on fwr the issues with data farming (?) I can’t remember the term - when academics quote and reference each other so much that a postured theory becomes fact with huge lists of references.

Just as Cass found.

WarriorN · 08/03/2026 13:59

Slimtoddy · 08/03/2026 13:56

Not sure I understand all the posts here as I think some of you might be experts and your language is a bit technical for me but I think I get the gist.

I do find masking interesting. I work in an organisation where like many organisations there is a culture based on expected behaviours. As a result people don't tend to challenge and respect the hierarchy a bit too much. However occasionally I get the chance to work with people diagnosed autistic and it can be very refreshing. They just say what they think and often this leads to improvement in whatever we are working on. But sometimes they get into trouble and complaints are made against them for their bluntness and how it's made people feel. This then creates a stressful situation for all. These people have not learnt the art of masking but in truth we benefit from their direct analysis of whatever we are dealing with.

Saying what you think is also very cultural.

likelysuspect · 08/03/2026 14:24

Fearfulsaints · 08/03/2026 13:50

I just wanted to clarify that I think masking us something all people do and doesn't signify someone has autism in itself.

I was thinking about what masking might look like in the autistic population when compared to other types of masking. Was it different or the same?

I guess I ended up back at the core deficits of communication issues and repetitive behaviours are what are being masked. My son looked like he was communicating. He wasn't. He isnt masking he is anxious about the comms, he masked genuine communication issues.

In dementia I guess they try to hide cognitive decline?

In mood im trying to mask the mood im in. Im stressed about ehcp process. Im portraying happy and relaxed to the kids.

This is just a Sunday musing! Not a well thought through hypothesis.

Is it 'trying to' though? Or is it just how he understands and perceives others and himself?

My OH is like this, he hasnt a clue about 'masking' because he wouldnt comprehend what is required or try to do this, but he goes along with what he thinks is required or thinks is being asked of him or thinks he is communicating to someone, often with disastrous results. He really cannot understand sometimes what someone is saying, he thinks its the opposite usually to what is being said or concluded, then he has no clue that he is unclear in his communication, talking in half sentences, not using peoples names and wouldnt care or recongise that someone else doesnt understand him

But on the surface looks very plausible. He would absollutey give wrong information about a medical condition.

DrTemporary · 08/03/2026 14:25

noblegiraffe · 08/03/2026 12:00

I find the concept of masking interesting. I'm a teacher, I 'perform' being a teacher all day. I pretend to care about things like wearing your blazer. I greet students with enthusiasm at the door even when I'm knackered and all I want to do is go home. I use scripts for addressing stuff like poor behaviour 'you can choose to put the mini skateboard away or I can take it and put it on my desk for the rest of the lesson'. I think people who know me would be surprised to see my teacher self as it is not me.

Is that masking? Or something else?

This is what I think and echoes Frith's remarks. I am a GP - my degree of 'masking' (pretending to be exactly the kind of doctor needed in each consultation) is off the scale and I cannot function when I get home for tiredness, without any indiations that I am autistic. So I have been suspicious of this for a while.

It is also unfalsifiable - 'my child only demonstrates this and this behaviour at home, therefore must be masking at school.' An alternative hypothesis is that school routines and expectations guide behaviour in a positive way, and things fall apart at home. NOT FOR EVERYONE before I get leapt on.

I see many children with problems, and they are as variable as the children that have them. I definitely don't buy that they are all one condition - or, often, a condition at all. Their issues seem often to be a product of circumstances, trauma, personality, struggles with puberty, modern school expectations - I don't know. These are the things that I think we should be closely examining as part of understanding the huge rise in diagnoses - as these are the things we can actually change. For me it parallels gender dysphoria exactly and generates almost the same heat.

Unfortunately, suggesting there may be other reasons for 'hypersensitivity' (going with Frith's word) can cause severe defensiveness in some parents as it can feel like blame. And can result in a doubling down. As a GP I do not dare question a parent's pursuit of a diagnosis for the child if they are adamant - if the child is older, or it is an adult pursuing a diagnosis for themselves, I do try to gently explore how they feel a label with help and what they might know about the risks of overdiagnosis, but I am fighting a prevailing narrative. So I am pleased the issue is getting wider airtime.

noblegiraffe · 08/03/2026 14:25

Fearfulsaints · 08/03/2026 13:04

Maybe the difference in masking is are they actually communicating what they want to communicate or understanding whats being communicated to them or does it just look to an observer that there was a succeful interaction or to the other person in the conversation.

If its succesful but tiring its could still be a difficulty but maybe its something else?

When i last said my son was masking it was during a hospital appointment. He is over 16 an increasingly deemed to have capacity.

They asked him questions, he politely gave answers and he mimiced their facial expressions, laughed when they did, looked concerned when they did. he suppressed his stimms. It looked like a perfect set of communication and he was exhausted by it.

But he didn't actually understand the questions and if i hadn't been there he wouldnt have been diagnosed with the physical condition. He gave socially appropriate answers, with socially appropriate facial expressions based in what he thought they should by copying the doctor and what he'd rehearsed in school. They bore no relation to reality.

He can have whole interactions that look fine but arent actually genuine communication at all.

This is really interesting. What do you mean when you say he didn't understand the questions if he was able to 'answer' them in a socially appropriate way?

Can you give an example?

Missproportionate · 08/03/2026 14:29

Chinkoffire · 08/03/2026 12:33

the underlying fact remains - and I’ve seen this first hand with my own DCs - that boys act out their ASD or ADHD on others, and girls turn it on themselves. Guess who gets the attention? The ones throwing chairs about ….

I haven’t read the full thread OP, but I must object to this. Not all children fit this stereotype! My own DS’s autism wasn’t picked up in nursery or at school for a few years precisely because he was quiet and flew under the radar. The teachers thought he was academically ‘weak’ (he isn’t, but he also has dyslexia which wasn’t identified either). Certainly he never threw chairs about. He had a MH breakdown instead aged 10.

Please don’t make assumptions. We get enough of them from people who have no experience of autism or neurodiversity, without getting them from the autistic community too.

Edited

No assumptions- own experience of self and of ADHD son. I know anecdote isn’t data 📈. I guess what I was trying to illustrate was that a lot of kids don’t get any help if they aren’t actually causing disruption or issues in the classroom. I never squeaked more than a mouse, my son was disruptive so that attracted attention and a desire from school for solutions. I guess in a system in stress that’s the pragmatic solution - I don’t agree with it but I know it happens a lot

OP posts:
WarriorN · 08/03/2026 14:33

Interested to see Tania Marshall agrees with Uta.

I don’t know a lot about her but she’s very gender critical and shared today’s times article on Twitter.

https://taniamarshallconsulting.com/about-tania/

Missproportionate · 08/03/2026 14:35

Brainworm · 08/03/2026 13:28

Masking is very common in people with dementia. They go to great lengths to cover up their loss of cognitive capacity.

O gosh yes I’ve seen this first hand

OP posts:
WarriorN · 08/03/2026 14:38

certain words like hyper sensitivity can trigger the assumption that it’s just “being a drama queen,” “attention seeking” and all other manner of dismissive comments.

Women have certainly been the brunt of this in medical science (eg endometriosis, PPMD etc) so I’m not surprised it’s been taken badly.

WarriorN · 08/03/2026 14:41

WarriorN · 08/03/2026 14:33

Interested to see Tania Marshall agrees with Uta.

I don’t know a lot about her but she’s very gender critical and shared today’s times article on Twitter.

https://taniamarshallconsulting.com/about-tania/

This is the comment Tania has received for sharing the times piece

Uta Frith, women, autism, and what Dr Stock, Helen Lewis etc think...
Missproportionate · 08/03/2026 14:43

WarriorN · 08/03/2026 14:38

certain words like hyper sensitivity can trigger the assumption that it’s just “being a drama queen,” “attention seeking” and all other manner of dismissive comments.

Women have certainly been the brunt of this in medical science (eg endometriosis, PPMD etc) so I’m not surprised it’s been taken badly.

Exactly

see ‘Hysterical’ also as above

OP posts:
Harpler · 08/03/2026 14:51

noblegiraffe · 08/03/2026 14:25

This is really interesting. What do you mean when you say he didn't understand the questions if he was able to 'answer' them in a socially appropriate way?

Can you give an example?

Rudely answering a question aimed at someone else, but my experience may also be relevent. DD knows it's socially inappropriate to complain and so she'll tell me at home about a physical problem - she'll say it feels yucky - but when we get to the GP, she'll say it's fine or not too bad, and the GP thinks I'm barmy - until they actually look in her ear or whatever and see it's filled with pus. We've worked out that it's best if I speak for her, although I suspect that the Drs (understandably) think I'm some sort of shit parent for this.

It's a manifestation of "not like this at home" that PP mentioned. And I can totally see that there are many different explanations for why a child (or any of us) may behave differently in different environments. (My colleagues would very much not appreciate my home self rocking up tomorrow morning 😆).

Slimtoddy · 08/03/2026 15:07

WarriorN · 08/03/2026 13:59

Saying what you think is also very cultural.

Yes, that is true and I have observed that on the workplace too. I come from a culture that is notoriously indirect which my DS (diagnosed autistic) finds infuriating as I am not direct enough. In my head I think I am direct but he says I am a advocate for 'guess culture '. It leads to lots of issues but thankfully nothing too important

Chinkoffire · 08/03/2026 15:21

Missproportionate · 08/03/2026 14:29

No assumptions- own experience of self and of ADHD son. I know anecdote isn’t data 📈. I guess what I was trying to illustrate was that a lot of kids don’t get any help if they aren’t actually causing disruption or issues in the classroom. I never squeaked more than a mouse, my son was disruptive so that attracted attention and a desire from school for solutions. I guess in a system in stress that’s the pragmatic solution - I don’t agree with it but I know it happens a lot

Edited

I agree kids don’t get help if they don’t make noise in the classroom, just that this isn’t strictly divided along sex lines as you claimed it was.

DS flew under the radar at school for a long time.

And a pp said
Trust me, I’ve seem many girls throw chairs about and many extremely introverted boys in my teaching career!

borntobequiet · 08/03/2026 15:22

I’m a (semi retired) teacher. I decided quite some time ago to assume that in any given class there would be examples of all sorts of neurodivergence and to adapt my teaching so as to “take the edge off” for all of them. Many of the strategies that work for one benefit others, and they benefit children without such issues as well. Obviously, some will need extra adaptations, but doing this has made me a much better teacher.

Fearfulsaints · 08/03/2026 15:23

noblegiraffe · 08/03/2026 14:25

This is really interesting. What do you mean when you say he didn't understand the questions if he was able to 'answer' them in a socially appropriate way?

Can you give an example?

He was seen by a multidisciplinary team around back pain (rheumatology, paediatrics and physio).

They said things like 'Is your back pain relentless'

He'd say 'no, its not relentless' then mimic the physio's expression.

He just would guess whether it was yes or no answer and based it a lot of whether the physio was smiling and nodding or looking concerned. So if she looked concerned he'd guess it was bad to say yes to that thing and would say no. If the physio smiled he said yes. They werent based on his actual symptoms or understanding. He used a lot of just repeating what they said with thier tone.

I then rephrased the question and asked him to look at me and it turns out the pain was all the time. He had no idea what relentless meant.

They said 'does it hurt when I touch your feet'

He'd say 'yes it hurts when you touch my feet '

He meant his feet hurt when they touched him as he has sensitive feet. They actually meant did he feel it in his back. (I think they asked it in a stupid way tbf)

I had to step in and ask them to explain a bit more but they hadn't picked up on the misunderstanding.

So on a surface level he is saying yes and no at the right times. He was delightful with his pleases, thank yous. He wasnt making vocal stimms, or answering with totally irrelevant information (like just telling them how many vertbrae a giraffe had) which is actually what he wanted to do.

But he fundamentally failed to communicate his back hurt all the time and his feet werent involved.

MyOpalCat · 08/03/2026 15:29

noblegiraffe · 08/03/2026 12:00

I find the concept of masking interesting. I'm a teacher, I 'perform' being a teacher all day. I pretend to care about things like wearing your blazer. I greet students with enthusiasm at the door even when I'm knackered and all I want to do is go home. I use scripts for addressing stuff like poor behaviour 'you can choose to put the mini skateboard away or I can take it and put it on my desk for the rest of the lesson'. I think people who know me would be surprised to see my teacher self as it is not me.

Is that masking? Or something else?

I do remember thinking as a young child I had to be different person as it were walking through school gates. As I'm quiet and shy I got steered away from front facing roles for careers but done them as temp or summer jobs and did them well as I knew the roleand could perform it.

I usually see masking applied to situation like DD1 had in primary - where school says everything is fine but home it's clear it's not.

DD1 was sat next to a child who's behavior set DD1 sensitivies off - both kids got on and asked to be moved told no- DD1 explained why it was upsetting to teacher got told to develop resiliency and to us who did have a word and got told same and suggestion it was bullying to other child to even ask.

Her ablity to cope decline day by day - she started acting up at home then before school asked teacher again for a move - got told it was a parenting issue as only a home problem.

It escalated over weeks to point struggling to get her into school just before I saw HT she had melt down in school couldn't cope - they could do nothing with her but get her to a quiet room HT was shocked as she'd been perfectly behaved child till then with few minor quirks with texture and sound some teahcers noticed. (Subsquently at Uni disagonsed ADHD, dyslexia and dsypraixa after several schools insisting she was NT)

That often described as masking on here as she cope in school till she didn't and home life was where the issues were highly visible - all the coping pool of ablity having been used up during the school day.

However I think she was showing signs of clear increasing distress in school that just got dismissed by that teacher - who refused to do a simple bloody seating change. Seating change and while rest of year she was very anxious doing lots of handwashing and rituals everyone other than that teacher saw and expressed concern to us about - immediate problems went away with seating change and she again went to school fine and came home tired but not upset. DS same age had similar issue lost it immediatley - he'd learnt stafff wouldn't listen earlier - and the seating change was immediate.

That not quite how other posters on this thread are using it - but it's how I often see it used on MN to explain why the school thinks eveything is fine but at home there's a clearly distressed child.

MyOpalCat · 08/03/2026 15:34

Harpler · 08/03/2026 14:51

Rudely answering a question aimed at someone else, but my experience may also be relevent. DD knows it's socially inappropriate to complain and so she'll tell me at home about a physical problem - she'll say it feels yucky - but when we get to the GP, she'll say it's fine or not too bad, and the GP thinks I'm barmy - until they actually look in her ear or whatever and see it's filled with pus. We've worked out that it's best if I speak for her, although I suspect that the Drs (understandably) think I'm some sort of shit parent for this.

It's a manifestation of "not like this at home" that PP mentioned. And I can totally see that there are many different explanations for why a child (or any of us) may behave differently in different environments. (My colleagues would very much not appreciate my home self rocking up tomorrow morning 😆).

My Dad got like that in later years - so Mum had to speak for him. I don't know if he forgot or didn't want a fuss made or dreaded yet more pills and then interactions with other meds or painful treatements - he was likely suffering from congantive decline. Mum would have to push then they'd see clearly see the issue.

MIL said FIl was also getting like this - then he got a hearing aid - and now I wonder if he was masking hearing issues and not realising what was actually being said.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/03/2026 16:01

@DrTemporary
I see many children with problems, and they are as variable as the children that have them. I definitely don't buy that they are all one condition - or, often, a condition at all. Their issues seem often to be a product of circumstances, trauma, personality, struggles with puberty, modern school expectations - I don't know.

Dr Sami Timimi thinks as you do if I remember correctly.
(Sami Timimi is a British psychiatrist, psychotherapist, and author. He works as a consultant in child and adolescent psychiatry. He writes from a critical psychiatry perspective on topics relating to mental health and childhood and has published extensively in medical, educational, and sociological journals.)
wikipedia

WarriorN · 08/03/2026 17:00

Enter stage left: the gatekeeping discourse.

With no bio markers you do need to gatekeep.

Uta Frith, women, autism, and what Dr Stock, Helen Lewis etc think...
Uta Frith, women, autism, and what Dr Stock, Helen Lewis etc think...
justintimeforxmas · 08/03/2026 17:05

It’s an interesting discussion and definitely does need to be discussed.

i do think there is a place to differentiate between severe non - verbal autism who will need lifelong assistance and those that just need a bit of understanding.

This is particularly in terms of benefits. I’ve taught plenty of academically able students with Autisms who thrive with a bit of understanding/ maybe extra time in exams etc but will probably go onto to have successful careers and lives. The diagnosis is great for this but I wouldn’t really consider it a disability especially in terms of collected PIP money. They are many who capable of looking after themselves including financially. Without the diagnosis there is a risk of burnout at school and all the severe anxiety that goes with that.
This is a world away from those with severe autism who will never live without assistance. Lumping them with the same diagnosis has never made sense so I suppose I agree with Uta Frith.

Chinkoffire · 08/03/2026 17:07

Fearfulsaints · 08/03/2026 15:23

He was seen by a multidisciplinary team around back pain (rheumatology, paediatrics and physio).

They said things like 'Is your back pain relentless'

He'd say 'no, its not relentless' then mimic the physio's expression.

He just would guess whether it was yes or no answer and based it a lot of whether the physio was smiling and nodding or looking concerned. So if she looked concerned he'd guess it was bad to say yes to that thing and would say no. If the physio smiled he said yes. They werent based on his actual symptoms or understanding. He used a lot of just repeating what they said with thier tone.

I then rephrased the question and asked him to look at me and it turns out the pain was all the time. He had no idea what relentless meant.

They said 'does it hurt when I touch your feet'

He'd say 'yes it hurts when you touch my feet '

He meant his feet hurt when they touched him as he has sensitive feet. They actually meant did he feel it in his back. (I think they asked it in a stupid way tbf)

I had to step in and ask them to explain a bit more but they hadn't picked up on the misunderstanding.

So on a surface level he is saying yes and no at the right times. He was delightful with his pleases, thank yous. He wasnt making vocal stimms, or answering with totally irrelevant information (like just telling them how many vertbrae a giraffe had) which is actually what he wanted to do.

But he fundamentally failed to communicate his back hurt all the time and his feet werent involved.

Is it the stress of the situation that is making him unable to grasp what they are asking do you know @Fearfulsaints? He understands when you ask the question in the same place. Just wondering if you are phrasing things in a different way or is it that he so stressed by the different person questioning him that his brain can’t compute properly iyswim?

I have an autistic DS who doesn’t have an intellectual disability and mostly doesn’t have speech issues, but his reaction in this sort of situation is often to go mute. The only advantage to that is that he doesn’t inadvertently mislead medical staff as your DS may have done if you weren’t there. (I never thought there was an advantage to becoming situationally mute before 🤔)

I’m NT myself I think, but have experience of something similar when public speaking to large crowds in the past (work-related). Giving the talks themselves was fine because I could prepare, but if someone asked a question I could be so stressed I wouldn’t even hear it properly and my brain stopped working really. (I don’t do these talks anymore!)