John Davison BAFTA Tourette’s incident and competing rights

[slet]

It’s interesting how this is being discussed atm. I see Ash Sarkar has framed it as an example of competing rights between disabled people and victims of racism, forgetting about intersectionality. But there is a struggle from those on the extreme left to see how women’s rights are compromised by ceding to TRAs.

not expressing myself very well but thought it had some interesting parallels with the sex and gender debate.

Because they’re famous, they’ve never been through anything? I’m sure life went perfectly for 73 year old Delroy Lindo who grew up in the civil rights era 👍

The BBC should have sat down with those getting awards before the show and made them aware that something offensive might be yelled at them while on stage. They could have discussed possible reactions, so that those on stage would not have been taken by surprise, but would have had the chance to take control of the narrative and be empathetic at the same time. They could have explained again what Tourette's is or made an inclusive joke. They could have discussed possible responses with John Davidson. That would have been truly inclusive and in everyone's best interest.

If there is no intent there can be no target.

This is a really helpful comment, thank you!

It's like the command "don't think of an elephant" leads to thinking of elephants (bc your mind first conjures the thing, then applies the prohibition).

It sounds awful. I would hope that the vast majority of people would be understanding once they know you have Tourette's, though.

Oh God yeah, another is ‘he never seems to tic in interviews’ 🙄

That's just not true.

He wasn't yelling it at no one. He was yelling it at the two black men.

Again, I know he didn't want to, or intend to, but nonetheless they were the targets of that word.

Crazy logic 🙌🥰

It’s your field of vision that is narrow and excludes the lived experiences of two black men. My original point was that both John and MBJ and DL deserved to be included and celebrated on their special nights and they were all let down by BAFTA and the BBC, so get your facts straight.

Plenty of people who are 73 have lived through a lot for many reasons. That does not mean they have no ability to understand a condition like Tourettes.

Although this thread does reveal that many people are indeed seemingly incapable of understanding a condition like Tourettes.

No I wouldn't say it's directed at individuals. I would say it's directed at situations.

Stress and excitement makes it worse - the person reacts to the situation they find themselves in. Their anxiety is about the situation not individuals.

Going to see the Queen whilst it's about an individual it's really about the situation of being on your best behaviour to meet someone you absolutely must be your most polite and respectful ever too. It's not about her as an individual.

Going to the BAFTAs is about the anxiety and excitement of the occasion and being on TV. And then you think, What's the worst thing I can do? Because you have been through it before and it's almost like a PTSD type response where you can't help but think the worst and then it becomes self forfilling.

Whoever was going on that stage at that moment was going to trigger an offensive tic. It just happened to be two black guys. If he had staged in the room he'd probably have said more. Because once you start off badly it's stresses and can send you spiralling.

No one has said they’ve never experienced hardship. They haven’t got Tourette’s though
and I’d bet my last bottle of Sauv B they haven’t been through the shit John Davidson has been through, all through his life. All in the film/docs.

It really is.

The concept of a target requires intent. Otherwise you are just randomly hitting something.

No he wasn't yelling.

He wasn't doing anything.

His brain was misfiring causing his body to do something that he wasnt in control of.

He doesn't have the capacity to prevent this.

This wasn't his action. This was a neurological symptom of a disability. Like an allergic reaction if you will.

We are each different. I do not have PTSD so I am not triggered by words like that. I am sorry that you have an ongoing struggle with this.

I am lucky not to have PTSD and therefore I can choose how I react when I understand the context of a situation. If I thought those words were called out on purpose by a person in order to emotionally harm me - I would be angry and upset. As a person informed of the context - no upset would occur. I would actually feel for the person who had involuntarily drawn huge negative attention to themselves when they were probably just trying to get through the evening.

I just can't see how the famous actors, knowing the context of John Davidsons utterances, could be at all offended by the words they heard.
They just must be very self absorbed and not able to understand the plight of other people. At all.

Are you 6? Choosing to argue over whether the being nominated at the BAFTAs constitutes ‘a special night’ shows you have no response to a valid point, so thanks.

I agree with everything you say, except that the slurs and insults change and are dependent on who they're 'directed' at. Right?
So when the tic is an insult shouted towards someone, there is an element of the Tourette's 'targeting' whatever the most offensive thing is to say about that individual, isn't there?

Thank you for patiently and politely explaining!

No, no, no - I think you need to go back and read the explanation again.

Someone who gets it, perfectly said!

Bullshit. You are willfully trying to characterise people with Tourettes as inheritantly racist. Calling the queen the n word isn't the most offensive thing for that situation. I have no doubt if someone with Tourettes met the queen tomorrow they'd start shouting Andrew is a nonce. Queen of Paedos. Or similar. Because that's the most offensive thing for the situation.

And this applies to every situation. Race comes into it because society seems it to be the most offensive thing, not because the person with Tourettes is racist.

It's a reflection of social expectations rather than an individual and how they feel.

"Target", per Oxford Dictionary

1. a person, object, or place selected as the aim of an attack.

"the airport terminal was the target of a bomb"

Nobody was selected.

Nobody was attacked.

Recognised by BAFTA and the BBC, who clearly didn’t sit these two actors down and explain very carefully that Tourette’s means that they might have anything shouted at them.

If they were annoyed at the BBC and BAFTA I’d be cheering them on. If you were demanding the BBC and BAFTA recognise that the pre, during and after announcements weren’t sufficient I’d say you might have a point.

But you keep putting this on the disabled person whose disability means they had no control over what was said.

So it was a total coincidence that his Tourette's made him shout 'n---r' when two black men were on stage, and he'd have used the same slur if they'd been two fat white women?