Baby born from dead donor womb transplant in UK first

[IwantToRetire]

Commisseration and support for the family of the woman who died, and happy for the new mother.

But feel sort of uneasy about this.

https://news.sky.com/story/simply-a-miracle-baby-boy-born-from-dead-donor-womb-transplant-in-uk-first-13511093

I'm not OP of that post, but can elaborate.

Adoption is a fantastic solution for kids who would otherwise be brought up in care, and particularly for those whose parents are unable to give them a stable upbringing because of their own problems, e.g. addiction.

It's not a great solution for infertile couples desperate to have their own child. Sometimes the parents' emotional expectations are not fulfilled, and very often the child will not be wholeheartedly accepted by other family members. The child is likely to notice, and that's a significant burden on mental health while growing up. Some degree of attachment disorder is fairly common.

There are also ethical considerations when adopting from overseas. Even in the UK, back in the 1960s when I was born, there was considerable social pressure on unmarried mothers to give up their babies to more "deserving" married parents – often with a devastating impact on the birth mothers' mental health.

Nobody has even suggested that!!!!

this is a study of 15 women, all of whom are desperate for a child.

Which ones? Do you support other organ transplants being that there is evidence of organ harvesting in other countries, I think recently there was a story of a young African boy being trafficked to the UK for such a thing. So, surely you consider all organ donation a risk?

Yes. It is. Women have been, and still are, treated as lesser when it comes to medical issues, or anything relating to our bodies.

For instance, up until recent years (the last decade) in several western countries medical professionals were still getting medical students to practice pelvic exams on women during surgeries - without their consent. They would never have practised prostate exams on men in the same position.

Adoption severs the legal and emotional bond between a birth family and a child - while that may be in the best interests of the child in that moment, that doesn’t mean it is not a morally ambiguous act by the state. Rates of adoption breakdown are surprisingly high, especially as children get older, often because they struggle enormously with their sense of identity. Children taken into care are often from deeply deprived families who, if given sufficient resources and support, might well be able to parent effectively. Did you know there are countries that do not permit or considerably limit adoption from care? Ireland and New Zealand are two off the top of my head, for cultural and historical reasons. In fact, according to this article (which is older - 2018) the UK is one of only three counties then in the EU who allowed non-consensual adoption, and the one that placed the greatest restrictions on contact between birth families and adopted children https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/18/adoption-has-become-runaway-train-social-workers-cannot-stop

None of that is a reflection on adopters or on adopted people (post-adoption support is often abysmal) but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t question the powers of the state to remove children from their families forever. You only have to look at the recent case involving “expert” Melanie Gill to see how the system can be flawed.

I didn't like the thought of it either. Its creepy.

Agree!!

and sent to the ai workhouse to process error logs.

Love it 😄

@ArabellaScott I had a donor card for years and now I'm opted in to some, not all. Anyone can choose (although it doesnt list womb yet) here - www.organdonation.nhs.uk/uk-laws/organ-donation-law-in-england/

So we can assume so long as nobody objects to something, they are consenting?

You dont foresee any problems with this?

I find it utterly horrifying.

Yes, I had a card and had selected which body parts I wanted to donate.

Now, consent is assumed unless specifically withdrawn. Its also now described as 'tissue' as well as specific organs.

Adoption does not always sever the link if it is safe for the child to have contact with their birth family. Social care work hard to keep families together, adoption breakdown occurs because the trauma lived by the child is too ingrained often because of the length of time they are left with birth family. In a civilised society, we protect the vulnerable which includes children and if the state didnt step in, child deaths would occur

Nice.

In the UK maybe. They are not always enforced as this article shows though.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/record-home-affairs-committee-more-india-vietnamese-b2530557.html

Knowledge is shared. In some countries eg India many women have been coerced, forced or left with no financial choice but to become surrogate. Now that surrogacy is banned in India coercing women into donating their wombs may be viewed as the next best thing.

I don't see this as any different to any other organ transplant.

A belief that the baby will develop an attachment to the dead womb donor sounds like the premise of a crap horror film where the serial killers heart you received causes you to start murdering people- it doesn't surprise me that some people are stupid enough to believe that kind of woo though.

I wouldn't have thought sticking a womb in a man will enable him to give birth, so I don't think TW will be able to benefit from this, however many social media videos they do about it.

IMO the main ethical issue is that the state have decided they have the right to take body parts from people without explicit, informed consent.

It’s worth remembering that the circumstances in which a woman would benefit from a donated uterus are very rare. Unlike surrogacy. Obviously if it happens to one woman that’s still too many but there won’t be large numbers of women being trafficked for this purpose.

I imagine the surgeons are looking at all the young women who voluntarily have organs removed in the hope of being more masculine. Hopefully the numbers will be reducing but the trans lobby does have an influence on this.

@ArabellaScott The NHS explains what it means by "tissue" here https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/about-organ-donation/tissue-donation/
The woman who womb was used had opted in to be a donor but her parents were also asked if they agreed, they did.

First principles, precedents, abuse of process, and slippery slopes are all also issues with the change from donor opt-in to 'assumed consent'.

Part of the v thorough adoption process is meant to identify parents who will not accept a non birth child. Family members are interviewed to see if they will accept a non bio child. Attachment disorder has usually already happened from previous trauma the child has experienced. None of this is infallible of course but these problems are well known and the processes are meant to weed out the parents where it wouldn't work .

Oh, us New Zealanders are great at killing babies and abusing children - well high up in the stats. Go us!

And the fact that the authorities are incredibly reluctant to take children into care, almost entirely refuse to foster outside ethnicity (to the point that they have tried/succeeded in taking happy and thriving children away from foster parents because they were white), and don't allow for adoption really doesn't help.

Not allowing for adoption at all is not a path a country should go down.

True!!

It’s not any different from any other organ, don’t see the issue.

Do you think people with a kidney, heart, cornea etc transplant are like Frankenstein?
How is this different,?

I haven't read every comment but has anyone pointed out that this boy will carry the MRKH gene that made his mother unable to carry children and pass it on? I am uneasy about the implications on ensuring faulty genetics survive.

'This service lets you choose to donate all, some or none of the following organs and tissue:

• Heart
• Lungs
• Kidneys
• Liver
• Corneas
• Pancreas
• Tissue
• Small bowel'

Tissue covers some organs but also.includes 'tissue', which is unspecified.