GLP v EHRC judgement - Thread 2

[Another2Cats]

This is a continuation thread from here:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5489699-glp-v-ehrc-judgement-is-coming-tomorrow?

of course.

Actually, I have read this a few times now TwoLoons

“This could be accompanied by - we are aware that life is very challenging for many trans people and that we are open to exploring alternative means and ways of reducing these challenges to those which involve making single sex provision mixed sex.”

This was right all along . We ARE seeking alternatives TO making single sex provisions mixed sex.

I’m slightly confused.

Are you saying that we need actual single-sex space provision that is only to be used by people of that natal sex…

…plus something else for trans-identified individuals that somehow nonetheless is respectful of their desire to be in a single-sex space that matches their trans identity not their sex? (How you square that circle I don’t know, but anyway…)

Or are you saying something else?

I believe it's a valid response to the constant denials and erasures of sex realist beliefs. Outside of this website, I've never talked about this stuff so I am likely the worst representative for whatever trans people feel about this. I suspect everyone also has their own experiences that influence their own thoughts.

Not just the SNP. Welsh Labour is totally captured as are Plaid Cymru, the LibDems and the Greens. With elections for both devolved governments looming in May, they could both be doubling down on TWAW.

I’m saying leaders should make it clear that single sex provision is not on the negotiation table. Single sex means single sex and gender identity is irrelevant in this context.

They should say that they are committed to helping people with trans identities access and participate in society and will work with them to explore how best to do that - but altering rules about single sex provision isn’t an option .

Ah, thank you for clarifying.

Also, I completely agree. And also! Wasn’t that basically the situation back in the “olden days”
of transsexual medicine? In order to qualify for medical intervention you had to demonstrate that you understood that you were not actually changing sex, and that therefore provisions for the opposite sex would not be available to you? I may be misremembering, but I feel like something like that was the case.

Male born trans identifying people must use male spaces.

Female born trans identifying people should use female spaces.

Male violence against men is NOT a reason to let that spill over into female spaces.

Male violence against women is why single sex spaces are essential.

I remember my reading that some male doctors who performed surgeries where cavities were created in their male patient’s groin after penises and testicles were removed for identity purposes would tell their male patients they could use female single sex provisions. That those male doctors actually negated female consent by doing so probably never crossed their mind. Which was on centring their male patient. Female people just had to comply.

I think BP is likely to be entering the 4 stages of hell tomorrow once the SEND white paper is published, if the leaks are to be believed.

She may end up laying the EHRC guidance as distraction 🤣

It is always enlightening to see a male person effectively celebrate acts of misogyny against female people as a collective or individually.

I’m sure that’s true too.

I’m talking super early days of this type of procedure; possibly the protocol I was describing didn’t last long.

There's a more extreme version saying that biological sex should be assigned based on gender identity rather than physiology. As biological sex has had an unambiguous legal meaning since 1970 (1999 for individuals with DSDs), this was out of line with the law even before the SC reinterpreted it.

Astonishingly, adherents to this POV think the GRA did not go far enough, in that it doesn't let trans people 'correct' their original birth registration, but instead created the concept of acquired gender, for which a new birth certificate is created, extracted from the gender recognition register.

The ideology is even crazier than you'd think, which is possibly why TRAs are so resistant to applying a Cartesian separation of gender identity and sex, which would have mitigated some of the practical issues.

The logical administrative end to this effort will be the closure of single-sex based services and construction of mixed sex spaces for washing and lockers, feeding individual cubicles for more intimate function.

I do remember reading though that those male people did have to demonstrate that they knew they had not changed sex. At least, there was at least one male poster on here who told us about his process in the UK and I remember that was something he had to demonstrate that he understood. (Ie. Not just say the words without showing understanding)

Female single sex provisions will not disappear completely. In fact, considering the number of sex crimes being recorded where female people are the victims in mixed sex provisions, I think the push back has well and truly started against mixed sex provisions replacing single sex provisions.

https://017ee2dd-4ea6-4d7f-869c-a043485bcc87.filesusr.com/ugd/a86851_84e4785fdf1b4c65afa177a0536de74c.pdf

This is just the start.

'Changing sex' was not isolated to the sole belief about gametes, etc. that sex realists hold. At least in the 80s, there was the expectation that one would disappear socially into the cultural fabric.

But yes, no one believed they had modified chromosomes or would be receiving the sexual reproductive systems of the other sex upon completion.

Which would be illegal. 1992 Workplace regs.

Its really really simple.

Female locker rooms, changing rooms and toilet blocks are for females.
Male locker rooms, changing rooms and toilet blocks are for males.

When there are no males in a female open plan locker room it works just fine.
ditto the male locker room with no females.

We haven't seen what the UK will do when tens of thousands of trans people start to actually come to terms with whatever provisions result after the EHRC releases their guidance.

What do you imagine the UK will do exactly that has not been suggested for at least a decade by feminists to have additional spaces available?

The Guidance cannot contradict the law.
The law has been in place since 2010
and was confirmed in April 2025

Trans identifying people just need to re learn some manners.

I believe there will be a lot of confusion from non-trans people at best and more anti-trans hate and violence at worst. Some non-trans people feel their prejudices about trans people are supported by the government, however that is conceptualised.

There are hundreds, if not thousands of people like me who have little or no social history of trans treatment over decades. Depending on the pragmatic details of each individual, I suspect we will just ignore any attempts to stratify trans people out from non-trans people. On the other hand, I can also see some of us deciding to be political and deciding to purposefully create 'difficult' situations. I believe consideration of family, friends and social position will override everything though.

Others, with a social history of being trans, will be challeneged to act or react in the moment. It will be very difficult to live life as a 'non trans' person.

Lastly, non-trans women who are believed to be trans will find life more challenging. I know sex realists believe this never happens, but it does and they will be the recipients of the feelings of the same emboldened anti-trans individuals.

I know the confusion people experienced before I started using women's spaces. I know how young children reacted when their parents would initially respond 'I don't know' to questions of why the girl was going into the boys room and then ask subsequent, more difficult questions to answer without diving deep into gender and sex or waving off the question completely.

Maybe the end result of this will be a utopia where there is no gender and nobody cares about sex outside of reproduction. I'll probably be long dead by then.

Just a reminder that the majority of the UK population consistently poll that they don’t want to get rid of single sex provisions.

The most recent poll was 28 Jan 2026.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/support-for-separate-toilets-for-men-and-women-and-gender-neutral-toilets-in-public-spaces

I doubt organisations or governments will be attempting to remove single sex provisions.

In fact, it comes across as intimidatory scare tactics when I read comments saying that mixed sex provision is the only solution on social media. It is catastrophising if one were to take a kind view of the motivation behind such comments.

They have little resemblance to the true likely outcome.

There are 'what ifs' and there is real life. I believe support will change as real life begins to overwrite the 'what ifs.'

”Lastly, non-trans women who are believed to be trans will find life more challenging. I know sex realists believe this never happens, but it does and they will be the recipients of the feelings of the same emboldened anti-trans individuals.”

Ahhh. The weaponising of female people who look masculine.

Having been regularly asked as a young person if I was male, I can assure you that my answer of ‘I am female’ worked a treat. It was the truth and gave the person asking time to further identify my sex through interaction.

I also know some women who have been asked also thank the women and girls for asking as that shows how brave they are to ask someone who could be male and react negatively.