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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men (and biological males who don't identify as men) trying to override a 'no' to gain a woman's consent.

42 replies

CassOle · 04/02/2026 15:15

Holy hell.

I had another Damascene moment of realisation.

I knew that tone and the tactics felt familiar.

OP posts:
SargeMarge · 04/02/2026 15:21

What?

Helleofabore · 04/02/2026 15:30

Is this coming from the experience of the thread that finished yesterday CassOle? Where we discussed consent with male people who told us clearly that they would still use female single sex provisions because it really wasn't a consent issue in their opinion?

CassOle · 04/02/2026 15:32

If you are female -
Have you ever had a man try to persuade you to have sex with him after you said 'no, I am not interested'?
Have you ever had a man try to persuade you that they are 'a woman' after you said 'no, a biological male cannot be a woman'?

The tactics and the manipulation used to override the 'no' are the same.

OP posts:
CassOle · 04/02/2026 15:32

Helleofabore · 04/02/2026 15:30

Is this coming from the experience of the thread that finished yesterday CassOle? Where we discussed consent with male people who told us clearly that they would still use female single sex provisions because it really wasn't a consent issue in their opinion?

Yes.

I just saw it all so plainly.

ETA - to the thread. I haven't seen the videos, but I will watch them later (I so often forget to go back to watch videos linked on here, but I must endeavour to actually watch them this evening when I have time).

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 04/02/2026 15:33

It really was a very clear moment, wasn't it?

CassOle · 04/02/2026 15:36

SargeMarge, I hope it makes sense now. In hindsight, my OP was a bit cryptic!

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 04/02/2026 15:39

I thought it was very much along the lines of this video

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2006188958586380420?s=20

here are some others that I thought were appropriate on the thread and still think appropriate now the thread is finished.

'isn't it just kind?' - about linguistic disruptions and a particularly a good point about children

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2014565139341836724?s=20

here she uses someone's video as an example

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2016359954098364468?s=20

and here is the one that talks about bypassing consent in more clarity

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2002449600146530366?s=20

This one is a vid about people not knowing their sex if they have not been 'tested'.

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2016357787752923290?s=20

So much effort to 'bypass consent'.

Amy E. Sousa, MA Depth Psychology (@KnownHeretic) on X

@femaxxnews @DOGE__news I’ve done this one!

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2016359954098364468?s=20

Helleofabore · 04/02/2026 16:36

This is an interesting thread too from Lucy Hunter Blackburn on X. It goes through 'balancing of rights' which is often used to justify male access to female single sex provisions.

https://x.com/LucyHunterB/status/2018987216207536383?s=20

4/2/26 9.57 am

Spending today (yet again) sitting in the court of session listening to the Scottish government discuss its determination that some men should be treated by like women, in one way or another. This time - prisons. I expect to hear much talk “balancing of rights”. But /

As others said, this is a case where an attractive-sounding concept has been introduced into a context where it simply does not belong. Whether we’re talking about rights as moral/ethical, protected in domestic law or international human rights standards…/

there are plenty of times where I don’t have a right to something and “balancing” simply doesn’t come into it. As a trivial example, I don’t have the right to…./

go down to the local primary school sports day and join the races, because of my lifelong hopeless track record of coming first or nostalgia for childhood. No one talks about balancing my exclusion from that, because it would be absurd to think in such terms in the first place…/

At a most serious level, a person who is sleeping on the streets, and whose need for food and shelter is objectively extremely high, has no right to enter your house, sleep there and be fed by you. No one is going to talk about “balancing” rights in that specific context…/

Moving closer to today’s case, there are a lot of men in the prison estate who would be assessed as vulnerable and might well be safer with women, and prefer to be held in the female estate. We wouldn’t talk about “balancing” their rights…./

Well, in fact, it worries me that the government is running arguments that leads exactly to that logical conclusion. However, no one sane would buy that at the moment. Ms Chapman, maybe, might./

And then we come to a small subset of male prisoners, who feel very strongly that they have a special right to be held with women. And some people who hold a particular metaphysical belief about gendered souls, or a “done enough“ philosophy based on appearance, or maybe/

having made a rod for their own back by keeping some of these men in the women’s estate for years, can’t face dealing with moving them out (am I getting close, SPS?), agree with these men. To believe that “balancing rights” is relevant here, you must believe that the assertion/

of entitlement to be treated as a woman creates a right to that. Unlike the assertion that you’d simply be happier or safer in a women’s prison, less at risk of dying if I let you into my house, or more likely to win something if you’re allowed to enter a primary school race./

It is, in other words, very far from a given that there are rights here that needs balancing. And the argument as to why there is would have to be made from very first principles, before “balancing” could be raised at all. Feeling sorry for people, for example, is not enough./

You should feel very sorry for anyone sleeping out in the streets in the current weather. That doesn’t mean I’m going to argue that they have a right of some sort to enter any house and seek shelter. And if you told them they did, you would not be being kind./

“Balancing rights” is irrelevant in today’s case, in my view. But even if you disagree, to argue it at all you without first have to make the argument fully from first principles why there is a right among this subset of men based on their assertion of it./

And if there’s one thing I know for sure that I am not going to hear in court today, or ever, not even incoherently, let alone coherently, it’s the Scottish government making that argument.

Lucy Hunter Blackburn (@LucyHunterB) on X

Spending today (yet again) sitting in the court of session listening to the Scottish government discuss its determination that some men should be treated by like women, in one way or another. This time - prisons. I expect to hear much talk “balancing o...

https://x.com/LucyHunterB/status/2018987216207536383?s=20

Greyskybluesky · 04/02/2026 17:11

The tactic still going on. On another thread, right now.

Edited to clarify I meant "the tactic"

Tallisker · 04/02/2026 18:09

Which thread, CassOle?

CassOle · 04/02/2026 19:05

Tallisker · 04/02/2026 18:09

Which thread, CassOle?

The second half of this thread (roughly).

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5481454-how-would-you-deal-with-t-in-a-friendship-group

OP posts:
CassOle · 04/02/2026 19:07

Greyskybluesky · 04/02/2026 17:11

The tactic still going on. On another thread, right now.

Edited to clarify I meant "the tactic"

Edited

Is that the FWS / Prisons thread?

OP posts:
BillieWiper · 04/02/2026 19:12

CassOle · 04/02/2026 15:32

If you are female -
Have you ever had a man try to persuade you to have sex with him after you said 'no, I am not interested'?
Have you ever had a man try to persuade you that they are 'a woman' after you said 'no, a biological male cannot be a woman'?

The tactics and the manipulation used to override the 'no' are the same.

Yes to the first one.
So so many times when I was young and vulnerable. I was coerced and manipulated into sex countless times sadly. I'm sure most other women have the same experience sadly.

No to the second. If I met a transwoman I'd treat them socially as themselves, with the pronouns and name they tell me they have.

But I won't see them as a biological woman and I wouldn't share female only spaces with them. There wouldn't be any persuasion if they insisted they were female. I would just say, 'no you're not. You can't force me to think you are. Nor do I want a confrontation on the subject.'

Tallisker · 04/02/2026 19:14

Thank you! I’d seen it had shot up to 1000 posts

CassOle · 04/02/2026 19:16

If you use preferred pronouns, he has already got you on the back foot.

OP posts:
lifeturnsonadime · 04/02/2026 19:26

That thread was wild.

The idea that a male child doesn't experience male socialisation because he always thought he was a girl, is absurd. As is the fact that the poor boy was clearly encouraged to think he was right that he was a girl by his parents.

Made me think about Susie Green's child who was whisked abroad to have his genitals removed for his birthday.

The internalised misogyny and homophobia was dripping from his posts.

Burntt · 04/02/2026 19:29

I’m Bi. Mostly dated men via OLD. Decided I’d had enough of men and joined some lesbian dating apps. They were full of men saying they women who were actually more pushy than the men who admit they men and heterosexual. They don’t just accept a sorry not interested or send you an abusive crud message calling you ugly and not worth it anyway like men in the normal apps they push for why and argue how you are wrong- then get you banned when you finally come out and say you don’t want to date someone with a penis. This is what opened my eyes to the trans ideology and brought me to Mumsnet

Helleofabore · 04/02/2026 19:31

Burntt · 04/02/2026 19:29

I’m Bi. Mostly dated men via OLD. Decided I’d had enough of men and joined some lesbian dating apps. They were full of men saying they women who were actually more pushy than the men who admit they men and heterosexual. They don’t just accept a sorry not interested or send you an abusive crud message calling you ugly and not worth it anyway like men in the normal apps they push for why and argue how you are wrong- then get you banned when you finally come out and say you don’t want to date someone with a penis. This is what opened my eyes to the trans ideology and brought me to Mumsnet

That is terrible.

I remember reading aLeo about the lesbians who were booted off at least one app for saying in their bio that they wouldn’t date male people who were registered as lesbians.

Greyskybluesky · 04/02/2026 19:42

CassOle · 04/02/2026 19:07

Is that the FWS / Prisons thread?

The school thread.

Probably the FWS thread as well, I wouldn't be surprised!

MyThreeWords · 04/02/2026 19:43

Men's refusal to accept 'no', combined with The Guardian's scrupulous support for men who want to coerce women into accepting their self-identification as female, have caused me to react very badly to The Guardian's pop-ups that try to guilt you into becoming a supporter.

Like a lot of pop-up 'requests', they don't give you the option to say 'no'. You can only choose between 'yes' and 'maybe later'. Then they repeat the question again and again in order to make you feel as guilty as possible about not wanting to do what they want you to do.

In their relationships with men, how many women are left with this same choice, between 'yes' and 'maybe later' - because their partner has successfully groomed them into the idea that 'no' is selfish?

I wish I had some way of telling the Guardian how much their high-minded sales tactics remind me of a man pestering for sex.

CassOle · 04/02/2026 19:44

Thanks. I will look at the school thread.

OP posts:
FranticFrankie · 04/02/2026 20:16

The 't in a friendship group' was a strange thread. Unreal to read that 2 transidentifying men, perhaps preferring to use the old term transsexual, genuinely believe they're women.
One, declining suggestion of a pregnancy test due to having no uterus, whilst not admitting to being born male! I didn't believe it but then was enlightened by a further post which reminded me that there is such a thing as an ectopic pregnancy!
Must admit that didn't immediately cross my mind, I was so amazed that a TP would deceive a medical professional whilst seeking treatment. Why not be honest and trust the person attempting to give you care?

I honestly thought that people who call themselves transsexuals are grounded in reality - Buck Angel for one. But then perhaps it's more common in TP born female as the good old female socialisation-always capitulate.
I believed that transsexuals are acutely aware of natal sex and that outward expression/presentation alleviates their dysphoria??

And finally, the 't in a friendship group' did lead to posters with the usual 'what harm does it do to you?' It's colluding in a lie. Hard for some, impossible for many

pontefractals · 04/02/2026 20:25

MyThreeWords · 04/02/2026 19:43

Men's refusal to accept 'no', combined with The Guardian's scrupulous support for men who want to coerce women into accepting their self-identification as female, have caused me to react very badly to The Guardian's pop-ups that try to guilt you into becoming a supporter.

Like a lot of pop-up 'requests', they don't give you the option to say 'no'. You can only choose between 'yes' and 'maybe later'. Then they repeat the question again and again in order to make you feel as guilty as possible about not wanting to do what they want you to do.

In their relationships with men, how many women are left with this same choice, between 'yes' and 'maybe later' - because their partner has successfully groomed them into the idea that 'no' is selfish?

I wish I had some way of telling the Guardian how much their high-minded sales tactics remind me of a man pestering for sex.

Thank you for expressing that so perfectly - those pop-ups have been really annoying me for quite a while now, and that is exactly why.

BillieWiper · 04/02/2026 21:55

Burntt · 04/02/2026 19:29

I’m Bi. Mostly dated men via OLD. Decided I’d had enough of men and joined some lesbian dating apps. They were full of men saying they women who were actually more pushy than the men who admit they men and heterosexual. They don’t just accept a sorry not interested or send you an abusive crud message calling you ugly and not worth it anyway like men in the normal apps they push for why and argue how you are wrong- then get you banned when you finally come out and say you don’t want to date someone with a penis. This is what opened my eyes to the trans ideology and brought me to Mumsnet

That's fucking grim. Any self respecting lesbian dating platform needs to weed these perverts out.

Make it plain- a lesbian is a biological woman who likes women. Not lovers or owners/ex owners of penises.

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