Men in women's prisons - Scotland

[lifeinthelastlane]

I didn't realise here were still men being housed in women's prisons in Scotland. Three murderers. Clip from Scottish parliament of Douglas Ross questioning first minster John Swinney, who won't say if they are male or female.
https://x.com/douglas4moray/status/2011790145192591422?s=46

And my goodness, when someone DOES point out the second part, why don’t they shamefacedly apologies to all concerned? But no, they keep digging. Why?

I too don't understand why the SNP continue not just to flog this dead horse, but in fact prop it up in the stable and try to feed it. What the hell is going on?

Leaves me with pretty much noone to vote for in the upcoming Holyrood elections.

They didn't think about women's rights because they dont think we are fully human and deserving of those rights or atleast not like men do.
Just look at the lib dem charter it says (or did the last time I looked) that there are men and non men no mention of women

So as I understand it the Scottish Government is challenging the Supreme Court judgement on the basis that not allowing transwomen (men) in women's prisons might contravene their right to privacy under the European Convention on Human Rights (Article 8). There are believed to be 3 violent male murderers currently in women's prisons in Scotland, despite the Supreme Court judgement.
The Employment Tribunal decision in the Darlington Nurses' case said that requiring the nurses to share a changing room with a transwoman (man) breached the nurses' right to privacy under Article 8 of the European Convention.
Does anyone have a view on how those arguments are likely to work out? Do the women in prison have the right to privacy in not being with men, or could it be argued that that only applies to shared showers and cells?

The Prisons and Young Offenders Institutions (Scotland) Rules 2011 says at s126: "Female prisoners must not share the same accommodation as male prisoners". And according to s2, accommodation "means the cells or rooms used to accommodate prisoners for living and sleeping purposes".

I would say that means everything should be entirely separate.

May I just say that your equine turn of phrase has absolutely delighted me all day.

(Also, I sympathise. Also feeling politically homeless.)

I have a GC MSP, and will vote for her if she is standing at the next election. But I will admit that if I didn't have that option, and my choices were a bunch of transcaptured nitwits or one of the Tories who has stood up for women's rights, I would vote Tory, despite not done so for about 40 years.

That's very interesting. Has the Scottish Government or the Scottish Prison Service tried to justify ignoring that rule? Is it just a case of them ignoring it because they don't like it, or have they addressed the point?

It’s all still happening in Australia too…
https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/convicted-killer-and-sex-offender-mark-lawrence-transitioning-to-woman-in-prison/news-story/91ea072504c1c2d21058fd0adb8e5921

“Convicted killer and sex offender Mark Lawrence transitioning to woman in prison”
“A killer who cut his victim’s throat with broken glass has begun transitioning to become a woman behind bars, creating unprecedented challenges for authorities.”

… continued:

”Sadistic killer and sex offender Mark Richard Lawrence is undergoing a transition to become a woman while housed in a jail near Brisbane.
The Sunday Mail has been told Lawrence, 64, is now asking people to call him Maryanne.
Lawrence abducted and sexually assaulted psychiatric patient Julie Ann Muirhead, 29, before he killed her by cutting her throat with a broken glass bottle in December 1983.
Lawrence, then aged 22, and a co-offender grabbed her from Wolston Park Hospital, taking her down to the river bank before attacking her.
He was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to 15 years’ jail on the basis of diminished responsibility.
Another seven years was added to his sentence in 2002 for the rape of a prisoner in 1999.
He also assaulted three children in his late teens.
Authorities have battled to stop his release from jail for years.
He was on a continuing detention order and released on a supervision order into the Wacol precinct with but has since returned to Wolston jail.
A forensic psychiatrist once said Lawrence had psychopathic traits and had been diagnosed with paraphilia sexual sadism.”

Of course he is. Why wouldn’t he.

Anyone who has tried to ask John Swinney and his surrounding crowd of mad TRA activists is just either ignored or deflected. There's obviously some sort of agenda for the SNP. They rely a lot on people in Scotland not paying attention to what they are trying to do. Big shock cases like Isla Bryson break through but not a lot. It's very frustrating. I used to vote SNP and trying to calmly explain to people why I will no longer vote for them (it's not just the gender stuff, but that is a big part) is usually met with puzzled bemusement.

According to p2 of FWS's Note of Argument the Scottish Govt's argument is that the Prisons Rules 2011 can simply be disapplied to let them do whatever they want.

"contrary provisions of secondary legislation (such as rule 126 of the 2011 Rules) have to be rewritten or wholly disapplied as Convention incompatible"
https://forwomen.scot/17/01/2026/fws-v-scottish-ministers-iii-written-submissions/

"On Tuesday, I asked whether you would suspend standing orders to allow an urgent question to be taken in the chamber on the Scottish Government’s legal arguments that it had published earlier that day on its case to continue to allow biological men to be housed in the female prison estate.

"In responding to that point of order, you said: 'Thank you, Mr Ross, and I appreciate advance notice of your intention to raise the matter. I am not minded today to accept a motion without notice. I think that my determination to ensure that all members have an opportunity to scrutinise the Government fully and regularly, whether that be through urgent questions or the selection of other questions, is very clear to the Parliament.'

"You finished by saying: 'I remind Mr Ross of the other opportunities that exist, and which are available to him this week.' The next day, I submitted the same question as an urgent question, which you rejected, saying that it was not of sufficient urgency. However, you wished for me to know that, should I press my request-to-speak button at First Minister’s question time, that would be an option for this to be raised.

"I then submitted the urgent question for a third time today, which you rejected for a third time, but, based on your advice and the advice given by the Deputy Presiding Officer yesterday in the chair, I pressed my button again during First Minister’s questions, and I was not called."

The Presiding Officer claimed that the issue wasn't urgent enough and that other MSPs had to be given the opportunity to ask about "many other matters.

Full article https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/douglas-ross-blocked-holyrood-presiding-36603171.amp

God, yes.

Yes. And Ash Regan.

A GC political party could do really well.

Kemi B, Rosie Duffield, a few Baronesses... it wont happen but it would be genuinely fucking awe inspiring.

Beggars belief. 😡but this is the logical end-point of this lunacy, I suppose.

It is downright weird. Robin McAlpine claimed Sturgeon's reliance on pomo addled young staffers was the reason she had to get behind genderpish. But that doesnt quite seem to explain Swinney and the Bepenised Prisoners Rights Obsession.

They absolutely will not back down on having male murderers in women's jails. Cannot fathom it.

Violent male offenders continue to be placed in the female prison estate, following SPS policy -

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/ex-prison-governor-says-there-are-no-womens-prisons-in-scotland

We are second class citizens in our own country. I never in a million years thought as an idealistic 20 year old all those years ago that I'd be in my 40s women in Scotland would no longer have the right to single sex spaces. Particularly vulnerable women in prison. The Victorians were more humane about sex based rights in prison! It's unbelievable.

A lengthy but excellent run down of the timeline of the policy by SPS to place males in the female estate, by MBM -

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2026/01/26/why-does-the-scottish-prison-service-hold-men-convicted-of-murder-in-the-female-prison-estate-a-policy-timeline/

Just been reading this: https://forwomen.scot/wp-content/uploads/FWS-Note-of-Argument-for-the-Petitioner-15Dec2025.pdf

It’s a good read if you have the time. It’s full of passages like this:

—1.4 The bold premise of the Scottish Ministers' position is that, in For Women Scotland Ltd.
V. Scottish Ministers [2025] UKSC 16, 2025 SC (UKSC) 1 - a case in which the Scottish Ministers took the opportunity to make legal submissions on the Convention rights and common law rights of "transgender people" - the UK Supreme Court didn't properly understand the law and/or misapplied it. In any event, the petitioner submits that there is no basis in law for the Scottish Ministers' position. Instead, it is clear that the Prisons Guidance is unlawful, and therefore falls to be reduced by the court.—

But my favourite is in the attached image. Byzantine indeed. 😂

But they're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiting in case the Fox Botherer manages to get it stated in court that trans identified men's human rights are infringed if they're not provided with unconditional access to non consenting women in a state of undress and vulnerability. As it appears that the concept of women's human rights doesn't fit between their ears, they're quite likely to be disappointed, but it lets all the MRAs crack on trampling women for another few months while they look for the next excuse.

I’m now politically homeless as I absolutely will not vote for any party that doesn’t believe sex matters and thinks trans women are women. It’s the Scottish Parliament elections in May and as I won’t vote Conservative or Reform there’s no one I can vote for in the constituency part of the election. Fortunately there’s an independent candidate I can vote for on the list but half my vote will be wasted. The current government cares nothing for women’s safety, privacy and dignity.

Not sure if this ahs been shared yet:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/f6220667-e4da-4cfc-8d8c-4ef9e7de3962?shareToken=0529dacb89aaefe7f557502310be627d