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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mixed sex toilets are terrifying for women but just a laugh for men.

519 replies

CrocsNotDocs · 29/12/2025 06:56

I can enjoy a good fart joke but this “hilarious” anecdote by cricket commentator David “Bumble” Lloyd left me cold. Men really have no idea of the fear women have of mixed sex facilities.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/3843028419327926/?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&fs=e&fs=e

If the link doesn’t work, it’s a viral, supposedly hilarious account of David going into a mixed-sex loo for a poo and letting off a loud fart. The lady in the cubicle next to him calls out “Is that you Maureen”.

From David’s point of view, (and pretty much every man and “cool girl” on the planet) he thinks that Maureen must be such a regular farter that her friend thinks the fart noise just has to be her.

I suspect most women would read this situation differently- Maureen’s friend has realised she was half naked inches away from a strange man and is calling out anxiously to her friend to make sure she isn’t alone.

I’m wondering what this board’s thoughts would be. Am I just looking to hard into an anecdote or is men’s complete obliviousness a big issue when it comes to mixed sex facilities.

OP posts:
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Bagsintheboot · 12/02/2026 10:15

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/02/2026 10:12

Surprised that what you take from this thread is that these discussions are people's "daily thought processes?" Worth remembering that no women anywhere in the world campaigned to have men watching them undress, toilet, shower etc so it shouldn't be surprising that some women want to discuss these abusive practices.

And it's always worth thinking occasionally about risk assessments - those who sail through life paying no attention to things like safeguarding / risk often seem to come to a sticky end.

Hopefully you won't feel obliged to spend too much time on the thread so your thought processes aren't affected by any worries about safety and risks posed to women

I was responding directly to a poster telling another she should think about it and that she'd soon mind if she collapsed.

I maintain that going around thinking "but what if I collapse" and refusing to use loos set up in a certain way as a result would be verging on the unhealthily paranoid.

Keeptoiletssafe · 12/02/2026 11:24

Bagsintheboot · 12/02/2026 10:02

The odds of collapsing in a public loo are fairly minimal, even for someone with a medical condition. You could just as easily collapse on the loo at home and, if you lived alone or even if your partner was just out for the day, no-one would find you in time. You could collapse in your hotel room, and no-one would find you (until the cleaners arrived the next day by which point it would probably be too late). You could collapse while out on a hike, and no-one would find you. And so on and so forth.

I can't help but feel that worrying about such rare events and "but what if I collapse" isn't really good for anyone. I really doubt it forms the basis of most people's daily thought process - and nor should it.

I have never needed a car seatbelt so why should anyone bother with that? Health and Safety is there for a reason.

Whilst there’s no accessible data where people collapse, it is known there are around 100,000 hospital admissions due to heart attacks in this country, equating to one every five minutes. It is estimated there are 400,000 people in the U.K. with undiagnosed heart failure. There are also around 100,000 strokes in this country, equating to one every five minutes. Around 1% of people in this country have epilepsy and around 80 people are diagnosed with epilepsy each day. There are many other conditions that lead to collapse where you need to be noticed and accessed quickly eg. diabetes and asthma.

My research and experience disagrees with ‘fairly minimal’. The reasons people collapse in toilets more than you may realise is that that’s where people rush to when they feel ill. Nausea, vomiting or feeling like you are about to defecate can be a warning sign of something else. Then there’s the process of elimination. Holding your breath and pushing is not good for several medical conditions. Researchers find that up to 11% of cardiac arrests happen on the toilet and they have a much lesser chance of surviving because no one realises. People who are choking in a restaurant rush to the toilet out of embarrassment. People feel sick and disorientated when their sugar levels are wrong.

Then there’s the people that go into the toilet to misuse it. Such as for drug use (including vaping in schools which is a problem with spiking). Bath university have done a study on vaping and spiking - teachers have done cpr on lots of children but luckily on the playground not in a private toilet. Another typical story is when women have been spiked in bars they feel ill, head to the toilet and collapse.

In fact, all building regs for non domestic dwellings state that you need to be able to open the doors of toilets from the outside precisely in case someone collapses. You’ll find that in many regs it also says you need to be able to reverse the door swing (or take it off easily) so that a collapsed body (typically) pushing against the door can be removed.

You could just as easily collapse on the loo at home and, if you lived alone or even if your partner was just out for the day, no-one would find you in time.
Yes you could and it happens all the time. It’s where paramedics head to when the fire brigade break in. My friend’s wife found him in the bathroom when she came back from shopping and he’d had a stroke.

What is awful is that a huge number of these deaths were preventable. Between 2020-2022 seven health care professionals died in hospital toilets of drug overdoses. That number will be much less than the true number including patients having cardiac arrests, drug overdoses or self harming. You could be in the busiest ward with defibrillators and doctors a few feet away, but if the toilet door is full height and sound resistant you might as well be on a desert island.

The completely private design is attractive to misusers for drugs but also sex. Perpetrators have used very public, very busy areas to assault someone within a toilet cubicle and no one knew. Unisex design is private.

I agree with you that it shouldn’t form part of anyone’s day to day thought process but I know for carers of those with medical conditions listed above and for those with assault trauma, it unfortunately does. For those looking at health and safety it’s useful for you because it means design can help when anyone is at their most vulnerable.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 12/02/2026 11:29

Bagsintheboot · 12/02/2026 10:15

I was responding directly to a poster telling another she should think about it and that she'd soon mind if she collapsed.

I maintain that going around thinking "but what if I collapse" and refusing to use loos set up in a certain way as a result would be verging on the unhealthily paranoid.

You heard it here first ladies. Health and safety and basic safeguarding is unhealthily paranoid. 🙄

Keeptoiletssafe · 12/02/2026 11:44

Bagsintheboot · 12/02/2026 10:15

I was responding directly to a poster telling another she should think about it and that she'd soon mind if she collapsed.

I maintain that going around thinking "but what if I collapse" and refusing to use loos set up in a certain way as a result would be verging on the unhealthily paranoid.

An academic study of Indian schoolgirls refusing to use unisex toilets:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0014292125000030

Bagsintheboot · 12/02/2026 11:47

MistyGreenAndBlue · 12/02/2026 11:29

You heard it here first ladies. Health and safety and basic safeguarding is unhealthily paranoid. 🙄

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

H&S and safeguarding - great.

Constantly thinking about whether you'll collapse and avoiding certain situations because of it - unhealthily paranoid.

Bagsintheboot · 12/02/2026 11:48

Keeptoiletssafe · 12/02/2026 11:44

An academic study of Indian schoolgirls refusing to use unisex toilets:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0014292125000030

What does that have to do with obsessing about whether or not you're going to collapse?

Bagsintheboot · 12/02/2026 11:52

Keeptoiletssafe · 12/02/2026 11:24

I have never needed a car seatbelt so why should anyone bother with that? Health and Safety is there for a reason.

Whilst there’s no accessible data where people collapse, it is known there are around 100,000 hospital admissions due to heart attacks in this country, equating to one every five minutes. It is estimated there are 400,000 people in the U.K. with undiagnosed heart failure. There are also around 100,000 strokes in this country, equating to one every five minutes. Around 1% of people in this country have epilepsy and around 80 people are diagnosed with epilepsy each day. There are many other conditions that lead to collapse where you need to be noticed and accessed quickly eg. diabetes and asthma.

My research and experience disagrees with ‘fairly minimal’. The reasons people collapse in toilets more than you may realise is that that’s where people rush to when they feel ill. Nausea, vomiting or feeling like you are about to defecate can be a warning sign of something else. Then there’s the process of elimination. Holding your breath and pushing is not good for several medical conditions. Researchers find that up to 11% of cardiac arrests happen on the toilet and they have a much lesser chance of surviving because no one realises. People who are choking in a restaurant rush to the toilet out of embarrassment. People feel sick and disorientated when their sugar levels are wrong.

Then there’s the people that go into the toilet to misuse it. Such as for drug use (including vaping in schools which is a problem with spiking). Bath university have done a study on vaping and spiking - teachers have done cpr on lots of children but luckily on the playground not in a private toilet. Another typical story is when women have been spiked in bars they feel ill, head to the toilet and collapse.

In fact, all building regs for non domestic dwellings state that you need to be able to open the doors of toilets from the outside precisely in case someone collapses. You’ll find that in many regs it also says you need to be able to reverse the door swing (or take it off easily) so that a collapsed body (typically) pushing against the door can be removed.

You could just as easily collapse on the loo at home and, if you lived alone or even if your partner was just out for the day, no-one would find you in time.
Yes you could and it happens all the time. It’s where paramedics head to when the fire brigade break in. My friend’s wife found him in the bathroom when she came back from shopping and he’d had a stroke.

What is awful is that a huge number of these deaths were preventable. Between 2020-2022 seven health care professionals died in hospital toilets of drug overdoses. That number will be much less than the true number including patients having cardiac arrests, drug overdoses or self harming. You could be in the busiest ward with defibrillators and doctors a few feet away, but if the toilet door is full height and sound resistant you might as well be on a desert island.

The completely private design is attractive to misusers for drugs but also sex. Perpetrators have used very public, very busy areas to assault someone within a toilet cubicle and no one knew. Unisex design is private.

I agree with you that it shouldn’t form part of anyone’s day to day thought process but I know for carers of those with medical conditions listed above and for those with assault trauma, it unfortunately does. For those looking at health and safety it’s useful for you because it means design can help when anyone is at their most vulnerable.

Edited

I'm aware of all of that, and I certainly would not argue with your data - I know you do great work in this area!

I am glad we are in agreement that it's not something which needs to inform the normal thought processes of your average person on the street on a daily basis.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 12/02/2026 11:53

Bagsintheboot · 12/02/2026 11:48

What does that have to do with obsessing about whether or not you're going to collapse?

What was that about reading comprehension?
No one said anything about being "obsessed"
Being aware is not being obsessed. Try again. Or better yet. Learn some compassion.

Keeptoiletssafe · 12/02/2026 11:58

Bagsintheboot · 12/02/2026 11:48

What does that have to do with obsessing about whether or not you're going to collapse?

refusing to use loos set up in a certain way as a result would be verging on the unhealthily paranoid.
I was responding to this part of your post.

But the two are related in this country as the safety feature for toilet doors is on all designs. I don’t really like making too much of this for obvious reasons.

Christinapple · 12/02/2026 12:02

bengalcat · 29/12/2025 09:35

At the International Horse of the Year show London lots of ladies used the gents ( predominantly single cubicles ) as there was no queue

Isn't this illegal? Sex Matters has gone to a lot of effort to ensure people only use toilets assigned to their biological sex.

SnowFrogJelly · 12/02/2026 12:08

MistyGreenAndBlue · 12/02/2026 04:08

My mother (in her 70s) would probably say this
But I KNOW it's not true. She just refuses to look at it.

I’m not in my 70s and it is true in my experience

So you can’t insist that it is

SnowFrogJelly · 12/02/2026 12:11

Some posters seem to spend huge amounts of time researching the likelihood of collapsing in a toilet surely there are better things to do

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/02/2026 12:14

Christinapple · 12/02/2026 12:02

Isn't this illegal? Sex Matters has gone to a lot of effort to ensure people only use toilets assigned to their biological sex.

Lol. That's the Supreme Court who clarified the legal meaning of the words women and men.
Sex Matters are just helping the terminally stupid who have a problem with facts and reality.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/02/2026 12:16

SnowFrogJelly · 12/02/2026 12:11

Some posters seem to spend huge amounts of time researching the likelihood of collapsing in a toilet surely there are better things to do

Most of us are extremely grateful to @Keeptoiletssafe for her research and diligence in sharing this with not just all of us, but government and organisations. She helps keep everyone safe.

But you do you I suppose.

Keeptoiletssafe · 12/02/2026 13:34

The problem with health and safety facts is you look silly when you argue against them. In order to get those facts you need to look at evidence and analyse and double check robustly. This means you do need to spend huge amounts of time making sure you are right.

It’s boring, long winded and depressing too. Because I keep seeing the same incidents having all over again.

Everyone will be pleased to know I have no evidence that murders are going to take place when people use the correct toilet for their sex (a fear of Victoria McCloud). It is incredibly rare that anyone is murdered in a toilet. Sexual assaults and deaths from drugs are much more likely. And unisex toilets are overrepresented. Getting trapped in a loo is common. The big newer challenge is hidden cameras, which I believe are easier to set up and hide in unisex-style designs.

What most people are concerned about is, is it clean (does it smell) and if there’s enough loo paper, running water, soap and somewhere to dry my hands. That’s what most people should be concerned about, because everything else should be in place.

Greyskybluesky · 12/02/2026 13:49

SnowFrogJelly · 12/02/2026 12:11

Some posters seem to spend huge amounts of time researching the likelihood of collapsing in a toilet surely there are better things to do

I know, right? Obviously it will never happen to you or anyone you know or care about, so what's the point...

nicepotoftea · 12/02/2026 15:01

SnowFrogJelly · 12/02/2026 12:08

I’m not in my 70s and it is true in my experience

So you can’t insist that it is

I am also lucky to have so far glided through life largely unaware of this kind of crime. It does not therefore follow that it is not a problem.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdxqll74xnpo

SnowFrogJelly · 12/02/2026 15:19

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/02/2026 12:16

Most of us are extremely grateful to @Keeptoiletssafe for her research and diligence in sharing this with not just all of us, but government and organisations. She helps keep everyone safe.

But you do you I suppose.

Keep everyone safe from collapsing in a toilet surely..

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 12/02/2026 17:29

Bagsintheboot · 12/02/2026 10:15

I was responding directly to a poster telling another she should think about it and that she'd soon mind if she collapsed.

I maintain that going around thinking "but what if I collapse" and refusing to use loos set up in a certain way as a result would be verging on the unhealthily paranoid.

You have a rather dismissive turn of phrase and you may not intend to but it sounds like you’re attempting to minimise a very important issue.

Bringing it to an individual level with your previous comment in order to criticise: “I can't help but feel that worrying about such rare events and "but what if I collapse" isn't really good for anyone. I really doubt it forms the basis of most people's daily thought process - and nor should it.”

is not helpful. The discussion has actually been about the risks to people in general. Why would anyone support a deliberate and unnecessary change (in a futile attempt to appease the trans lobby) that we know will cause unnecessary deaths?

We used to look at preventable deaths, like people falling off scaffolding for example, and think about what we could change to reduce that number. Now we have people airily waving them away claiming it hardly ever happens.

Do I remember @Keeptoiletssafe once posting that something like 11% of heart attacks happen in the toilet? People feel ill and if they are out and about will head to a toilet.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 12/02/2026 17:32

Safeguarding planning of facilities isn't done at single person level, it's done by thinking the unthinkable, asking the difficult questions, pre empting what might happen for the entire facility and every potential user of it, particularly known groups of particular need and those protected via legal guidance. That's not unhealthy, that's safeguarding practice and legal responsibility. That's how it works.

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 12/02/2026 17:38

SnowFrogJelly · 12/02/2026 12:11

Some posters seem to spend huge amounts of time researching the likelihood of collapsing in a toilet surely there are better things to do

Yet here you are still on this thread - that’s a lot of posts for someone who cares so little.

Personally I was concerned for the girl in my daughter’s school who was known to have fits and collapse and was put at far more serious risk after all the female only toilets were replaced by mixed sex floor to ceiling cubicles but yes, there’s lots of better things to do. It’s a shame that the time of so many is taken up trying to fight for basic rights for women and girls. Think what we could all achieve if there was this nonsense to sort out.

Shame on those who support it.

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 12/02/2026 17:39

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 12/02/2026 17:32

Safeguarding planning of facilities isn't done at single person level, it's done by thinking the unthinkable, asking the difficult questions, pre empting what might happen for the entire facility and every potential user of it, particularly known groups of particular need and those protected via legal guidance. That's not unhealthy, that's safeguarding practice and legal responsibility. That's how it works.

Edited

It’s quite stunning how many spend so much time arguing to take us backwards in this respect. Arguing for hours against reducing unnecessary harm or even death.

Astrabees · 12/02/2026 17:41

Just because I am 70 this year doesn’t make me more prone to the tiny risk of collapsing in a toilet, more casual ageism on MN. TBH I’d rather the cubicles were not quite right up to the ceiling and down to the floor and I really don’t mind sharing the wash basins with men. Last summer I spent time in Denmark where everyone seemed content with this arrangement, especially as the toilets were very clean because the men sit down to urinate. I think all mothers should train their sons to do this.

AnSolas · 12/02/2026 18:03

SnowFrogJelly · 12/02/2026 12:08

I’m not in my 70s and it is true in my experience

So you can’t insist that it is

How about delivering an answer to my question?

No quallifications allowed.

it either Tick box A or box B

Using @oviraptor21 s example which carraige are you picking?

oviraptor21 · Yesterday 23:56

When a train pulls in and you glance along and you see that

• one carriage (A) has just one man in

and

• another carriage (B) has a woman or several people in,

which would you choose?

□ A or

□ B?

Keeptoiletssafe · 12/02/2026 18:15

Astrabees · 12/02/2026 17:41

Just because I am 70 this year doesn’t make me more prone to the tiny risk of collapsing in a toilet, more casual ageism on MN. TBH I’d rather the cubicles were not quite right up to the ceiling and down to the floor and I really don’t mind sharing the wash basins with men. Last summer I spent time in Denmark where everyone seemed content with this arrangement, especially as the toilets were very clean because the men sit down to urinate. I think all mothers should train their sons to do this.

That’s interesting about Denmark. In the U.K., there has never been a mixed sex toilet design that has allowed anything other than being fully enclosed that I know of and I have looked back decades. If you do get this it’s because they have stuck a different sign on the door and using single sex designs for both sexes or didn’t follow standards in the first place. The HSE told me only single sex toilets in a single sex environment (ie the area with the sinks in) can have doors and partitions with gaps under and over.

Single sex toilet design is safer.