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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mixed sex toilets are terrifying for women but just a laugh for men.

519 replies

CrocsNotDocs · 29/12/2025 06:56

I can enjoy a good fart joke but this “hilarious” anecdote by cricket commentator David “Bumble” Lloyd left me cold. Men really have no idea of the fear women have of mixed sex facilities.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/3843028419327926/?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&fs=e&fs=e

If the link doesn’t work, it’s a viral, supposedly hilarious account of David going into a mixed-sex loo for a poo and letting off a loud fart. The lady in the cubicle next to him calls out “Is that you Maureen”.

From David’s point of view, (and pretty much every man and “cool girl” on the planet) he thinks that Maureen must be such a regular farter that her friend thinks the fart noise just has to be her.

I suspect most women would read this situation differently- Maureen’s friend has realised she was half naked inches away from a strange man and is calling out anxiously to her friend to make sure she isn’t alone.

I’m wondering what this board’s thoughts would be. Am I just looking to hard into an anecdote or is men’s complete obliviousness a big issue when it comes to mixed sex facilities.

OP posts:
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Keeptoiletssafe · 30/12/2025 12:24

Helleofabore · 30/12/2025 11:46

And this is a confounder.

In the case of spiking, if the person retreating to the toilet to be sick leaves the door a jar the attacker can then just follow and lock the door behind them.

If it was a female single sex toilet, then it would be noticed that man is following a woman in and security alerted. Plus with a gap other women will notice someone very ill and potentially comatose and hopefully get help.

Yet… trendy night spots have been changing toilets to mixed sex for years. I remember having this discussion over 10 years ago with work friends when we noticed new bars with banks of mixed sex toilets and how uncomfortable we were using them.

Yep. It was a nightclub where I helped save the life of a young woman in a cubicle (with a door gap so I saw her), who had stopped breathing having choked on vomit.

The influential toilet designers who have a lucrative business for their ‘social justice’ campaign of private, mixed sex ‘inclusive’ toilets say they did so as that was the design preference of transactivists in trendy New York nightclubs. What could anyone want to do in a private toilet in a nightclub? Why would it be advantageous for the owners not to know what was going on inside the nightclub toilets? Sorry to be the fun police but out of sight out of mind (to forget about the illegals) is a problem when the consent isn’t there or too much drug is taken.

It should come as no surprise that health and safety for their ‘inclusive’ toilets isn’t top of the agenda. One of the male owners discusses his early influences were from the designs that facilitated cruising in public toilets and incorporating them into home design. The other is a Professor of Gender Studies whose early work is more eye-brow raising.

bigboykitty · 30/12/2025 12:33

There's always one or two random posters who claim to know that women's toilets are much more disgusting than men's 🤔. My experience of being in men's loos and unisex loos is that men leave them in an utterly disgusting state. In fact a man in my workplace was spoken to by a manager about the revolting state he repeatedly left the unisex loo in. In a bar I went to with shared loos, there were signs up everywhere asking for people (men) to please close the door when using the toilet and to put the seat up. They just piss everywhere. Apart from all safety concerns and other protections, I do not want to share loos with men because they are rank.

Igneococcus · 30/12/2025 12:43

"Most assaults are committed by a man known by the woman."

I always wonder how much this statistic is down to the fact that we don't mix freely in spaces where we are vulnerable and alone with men we don't know. If women wouldn't try to reduce the risks of being assaulted by men unknown to them (like avoiding unlit and deserted areas at night), would this statistic change?

Keeptoiletssafe · 30/12/2025 12:45

There’s a great picture of a sign from the Home Office ‘gender neutral’ toilets telling the Home Office men to close the door as women don’t want to see them having a wee.

Helleofabore · 30/12/2025 12:55

bigboykitty · 30/12/2025 12:33

There's always one or two random posters who claim to know that women's toilets are much more disgusting than men's 🤔. My experience of being in men's loos and unisex loos is that men leave them in an utterly disgusting state. In fact a man in my workplace was spoken to by a manager about the revolting state he repeatedly left the unisex loo in. In a bar I went to with shared loos, there were signs up everywhere asking for people (men) to please close the door when using the toilet and to put the seat up. They just piss everywhere. Apart from all safety concerns and other protections, I do not want to share loos with men because they are rank.

I have been travelling a bit lately and having to use lots of mixed sex toilets. I have noticed just how many have splash back on the lids which then gets transferred to dripped onto the seats. I know of no women who would achieve this.

While female toilets can be very dirty (I too have been a professional cleaner), the issue with only mixed sex toilets is the lack of urinals. That lack of urinal facilities means that the pedestal toilets are being used in place of urinals.

There is no way high traffic mixed sex toilets can be kept clean unless there is a constant staff cleaning them. And that rarely happens.

It is a ridiculous comparison to mention that ‘female toilets are also often dirty’. Yes. Sure. What of it?

Adding men having no urinal access to the equation without a constant cleaning staff in a high traffic area doesn’t really compare and doesn’t mean women shouldn’t have access to female single sex toilets.

The mention of women’s toilets being messy too is a distraction tactic.

ContentedAlpaca · 30/12/2025 13:00

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 30/12/2025 11:43

Also women's experience - personal experience too - that in mixed sex contained toilet unit room areas, it is common for men to leave the door open when peeing. Regardless of women around in the area and walking behind them.

I'm sure it's a very lovely dick and he's very proud of it. I still do not want to see it. Or ever be in an area where men are handling their naked genitals. How the man identifies internally and what he is wearing makes no difference to this at all. And it again makes the point it is male behaviour that is the biggest issue here.

I've witnessed this twice out of around six time I've had to use mixed sex toilets.

Catiette · 30/12/2025 13:25

StellaAndCrow · 30/12/2025 12:00

Yes. The post I want to write would need too much of a trigger warning, but when I was assaulted the thing that affected me most was the realisation that a man could overpower me if he wanted to, and no amount of self defence/weight training/NHS C+R training would help me.

The idea that you can avoid/escape such experiences by being loud/taking up space/WOMAN POWER comes from such a privileged place.

Yes, that's what infuriates me. I'm lucky in my experiences. Which is to say that, as well as the usual litany of verbal abuse, threatening behaviour, groping and probable narrow escapes through the years, the only genuinely scary physical assaults I've experienced were being held down by a boy one one occasion, and a man on another.

The first was in an isolated area, just me and the boy. We were only about 14, I think. The second was as a young adult, in a deafening night club, with seething crowds literally inches away.

And each time, I was utterly helpless. I struggled, of course, but no one was there to help - or notice - and really there was nothing I could do about it but wait for his decision about what would happen next.

One interesting thing is that I'd been entirely aware of male strength before these experiences - arm-wrestling at school, play-fighting with uni friends etc. But it was only the actual experience of it being used against me, in a way that could escalate any way the aggressor chose despite my resistance - that opened my eyes to what it really means for women.

For me, it's very clear indeed that mixed sex spaces are an assault on women's equality. It's so simple, FFS! The moment a woman is in an enclosed space with a man, he has the power. He almost certainly won't use it, but if he wants to, he can - and all she can do is trust that he won't.

For a particularly idealistic earlier poster, to be very explicit: whatever she does - whatever loud, space-taking approach she takes to his presence - it's still up to him what happens next.

That isn't equality.

And yes, that disparity can't be avoided in a multitude of situations - it's biology, and life. We live with it. But in a world in which men commit 98% of sexual assaults and 1 in 4(?) women have likely had a far worse experience than my own above, in spaces where women are at increased risk and may feel vulnerable - legitimately terrified, in a significant minority of cases - we have a responsibility to mitigate against it.

The pedantry of the bland NAMALT and "not all women feel that way" responses speaks for itself. I mean, come on. Not all women feel that way? You don't say! I thought the title was intended to apply to literally every one of billions!

It's so embarrassingly obvious, it's hard to read as anything but provocative. It's very different indeed to a more thoughtful, "I don't mind, but I understand some women may," or even "I think generalisations like that are unhelpful when 'terrified' doesn't apply to all of us." These are easy to respect and understand.

Anything else, in a thread with this title, and the daily news packed with abused and suffering women, is an indication of considerable privilege or a surprising lack of empathy.

TheaBrandt1 · 30/12/2025 13:37

Or actually something more sinister I’m afraid.

Catiette · 30/12/2025 13:43

Indeed.

Visitors here muttering about regulars assuming they're male always attribute this to GC prejudice. They never seem to consider that it may actually rather be a pretty damning indication of just how much their own posts stand out as unusually indifferent or cruel.

Some posts are hard to understand whatever side you take in this issue, without considering dodgy ulterior motives.

As I say above, such posts are very different indeed to a more thoughtful, "I don't mind, but I understand some women may," or even "I think generalisations like that are unhelpful when 'terrified' doesn't apply to all of us."

Datun · 30/12/2025 14:01

Catiette · 30/12/2025 13:43

Indeed.

Visitors here muttering about regulars assuming they're male always attribute this to GC prejudice. They never seem to consider that it may actually rather be a pretty damning indication of just how much their own posts stand out as unusually indifferent or cruel.

Some posts are hard to understand whatever side you take in this issue, without considering dodgy ulterior motives.

As I say above, such posts are very different indeed to a more thoughtful, "I don't mind, but I understand some women may," or even "I think generalisations like that are unhelpful when 'terrified' doesn't apply to all of us."

Indeed. It's one thing not to feel worried yourself, it's quite another to minimise those who do.

The first could be lack of experience or just dumb luck, the second is much more deliberate.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 30/12/2025 14:14

All that is being asked for is accessible spaces for all. All needs met equally.

If we're going to fret over how properly to provide for men who believe they are women, and value their feelings and tell them they are valid and how important it is that they live their authentic lives, and care about the traumas and fears they have,

then we have to do the same for women, or it's just sexist bollocks. Obviously.

Why can't women have single sex spaces?

Because it narks men who apparently can't feel they have enough until they have it all, and can see that everyone else has nothing. It's like a small child having a tantrum over not being first in the line for playtime. It's pure intolerance. I have no time for it.

Hoppinggreen · 30/12/2025 14:21

You don't even hav to go into most mens toilets to know how grim they are, if you walk past one and the door opens you can smell it

MarieDeGournay · 30/12/2025 14:21

Helleofabore · 30/12/2025 12:55

I have been travelling a bit lately and having to use lots of mixed sex toilets. I have noticed just how many have splash back on the lids which then gets transferred to dripped onto the seats. I know of no women who would achieve this.

While female toilets can be very dirty (I too have been a professional cleaner), the issue with only mixed sex toilets is the lack of urinals. That lack of urinal facilities means that the pedestal toilets are being used in place of urinals.

There is no way high traffic mixed sex toilets can be kept clean unless there is a constant staff cleaning them. And that rarely happens.

It is a ridiculous comparison to mention that ‘female toilets are also often dirty’. Yes. Sure. What of it?

Adding men having no urinal access to the equation without a constant cleaning staff in a high traffic area doesn’t really compare and doesn’t mean women shouldn’t have access to female single sex toilets.

The mention of women’s toilets being messy too is a distraction tactic.

I've made this point before: men should be up in arms that they are being discriminated against by the removal of single sex toilet provision.

Unisex toilets are not adapted to men's physical needs in the way that single sex men's toilets are. It's not right that men are forced to use toilets that demonstrably do not meet their needs in an efficient and hygienic manner.

C'mon chaps, get organised! 😁

Helleofabore · 30/12/2025 14:52

MarieDeGournay · 30/12/2025 14:21

I've made this point before: men should be up in arms that they are being discriminated against by the removal of single sex toilet provision.

Unisex toilets are not adapted to men's physical needs in the way that single sex men's toilets are. It's not right that men are forced to use toilets that demonstrably do not meet their needs in an efficient and hygienic manner.

C'mon chaps, get organised! 😁

I agree.

The other thing is that I don’t believe some men (enough men?) are conditioned to wipe down the toilet after they use it. They probably don’t even think about it.

Add to that that younger women have the muscle strength to hover, and those women also don’t think of other women or girls who have to then clean up seats to not have to sit in urine.

Hygiene is obviously just one factor, but it is a factor.

funtimess · 30/12/2025 15:28

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

5128gap · 30/12/2025 15:29

Igneococcus · 30/12/2025 12:43

"Most assaults are committed by a man known by the woman."

I always wonder how much this statistic is down to the fact that we don't mix freely in spaces where we are vulnerable and alone with men we don't know. If women wouldn't try to reduce the risks of being assaulted by men unknown to them (like avoiding unlit and deserted areas at night), would this statistic change?

The statistic is to a significant extent down to two things. The vulnerability of the woman who has no choice but to share her private spaces with her partner/father/brother/formerly trusted guest; and the opportunity of the man in having access to her in these spaces.
Change public spaces so that women have no choice but to share them with unknown men and unknown men have opportunity to access women in those spaces and there is no reason to suppose bad men will restrict their abuse to women they know.

funtimess · 30/12/2025 15:36

popcornandpotatoes · 29/12/2025 09:51

I don't think I've ever been in a mixed sex toilet except the ones that are complete stand alone cubicles with full doors and own sinks. Have I missed some big change?

Yes, you have unfortunately. They are not legal but they exists in thousands of places including schools.

funtimess · 30/12/2025 15:41

RedToothBrush · 29/12/2025 10:36

Honestly.

Mixed sex toilets with urinals.

Yeah I find those pretty terrifying especially if you don't realise before you walk in and are then confronted with two blokes pissing in full view.

(In Belgium not the UK thankfully).

No this set is at the Old Vic theatre.

The old men's and women's no both unisex. One of which you walk into and there's a row of men pissing in the urinals.

funtimess · 30/12/2025 15:51

newbluesofa · 29/12/2025 11:40

Mixed sex toilets are not 'terrifying' for women, saying so makes us look absolutely pathetic. I do not care about mixed sex loos. If a man wants to assault a woman he's going to do it regardless. Most assaults are committed by a man known by the woman. There are bigger issues than toilets and I'm fed up of it being such a focus.

Yes, so rare, basically never happens....

In one year...only 110850 women were sexually assaulted by a stranger in 2023

Nothing to worry about ladies.🙄

England and Wales (Year Ending March 2023/2024)

  • Estimated Prevalence: Around 900,000 people experienced sexual assault in the year ending March 2024, of which 739,000 were women.
  • Stranger Percentage: For female victims of rape or assault by penetration, approximately 15% were assaulted by a stranger.
  • Estimated Numbers: Based on these figures, roughly 110,850 women in England and Wales experienced a sexual assault by a stranger during that period.
  • Harassment: Strangers are the most common perpetrators of harassment, accounting for 74% of sexual harassment cases involving women.
selffellatingouroborosofhate · 30/12/2025 15:51

KnottyAuty · 30/12/2025 08:50

Sal Grover used this technology on her app for women using photos. They managed to tune the software so that it never blocked any women unless there was a problem with the picture. I imagine that it would be even easier to do in real life - the new security scanners at major visitor attractions scan visitors for likelihood of terrorism based on body language - so fundamentals like biological sex markers will be easy peasy!

I'm always worried about those because autistic people can look shifty completely innocently.

Helleofabore · 30/12/2025 15:52

Catiette · 30/12/2025 13:43

Indeed.

Visitors here muttering about regulars assuming they're male always attribute this to GC prejudice. They never seem to consider that it may actually rather be a pretty damning indication of just how much their own posts stand out as unusually indifferent or cruel.

Some posts are hard to understand whatever side you take in this issue, without considering dodgy ulterior motives.

As I say above, such posts are very different indeed to a more thoughtful, "I don't mind, but I understand some women may," or even "I think generalisations like that are unhelpful when 'terrified' doesn't apply to all of us."

I applaud people who want to engage with a different view, bring it on. But when that view also contains belittling language, why should women just accept belittling for having concerns?

Quite often, I don't have direct experience that means I have formed a negative view from experience. That doesn't mean that I should not seek to understand that others do have valid reasons for needing something and viewing solutions from as many angles as possible.

It is good when posters qualify their opinions with "I don't mind, but I understand some women may," or even "I think generalisations like that are unhelpful when 'terrified' doesn't apply to all of us.". It shouldn't be expected though.

However, if someone hasn't qualified it and just said, 'I don't mind', fair enough, they might expect though to have some engagement about why it doesn't work for others and whether it is important to them or just a passing comment.

If a poster has said 'I don't mind, and you don't speak for me', they should expect to be questioned on this and have a discussion about why their opinion should overwrite others? After all, it is a discussion board....

Helleofabore · 30/12/2025 15:57

funtimess · 30/12/2025 15:51

Yes, so rare, basically never happens....

In one year...only 110850 women were sexually assaulted by a stranger in 2023

Nothing to worry about ladies.🙄

England and Wales (Year Ending March 2023/2024)

  • Estimated Prevalence: Around 900,000 people experienced sexual assault in the year ending March 2024, of which 739,000 were women.
  • Stranger Percentage: For female victims of rape or assault by penetration, approximately 15% were assaulted by a stranger.
  • Estimated Numbers: Based on these figures, roughly 110,850 women in England and Wales experienced a sexual assault by a stranger during that period.
  • Harassment: Strangers are the most common perpetrators of harassment, accounting for 74% of sexual harassment cases involving women.

Well that is grim, funtimess.

I cannot though work out why there is a narrative that women should not seek to reduce that 15% as well as the 85%. It does seem from some posters who tell us that there are bigger issues that maybe they think that we should not be creating safeguarding that prevents harm from strangers as well as those male people already known to women and girls?

Maybe I am missing something significant here. I would love to be corrected that when they say 'there are bigger issues' that they don't mean that we should not focus on reducing that full number (and the number that is never reported or recorded anywhere).

funtimess · 30/12/2025 16:05

Helleofabore · 30/12/2025 15:57

Well that is grim, funtimess.

I cannot though work out why there is a narrative that women should not seek to reduce that 15% as well as the 85%. It does seem from some posters who tell us that there are bigger issues that maybe they think that we should not be creating safeguarding that prevents harm from strangers as well as those male people already known to women and girls?

Maybe I am missing something significant here. I would love to be corrected that when they say 'there are bigger issues' that they don't mean that we should not focus on reducing that full number (and the number that is never reported or recorded anywhere).

Yes, and 5 in 6 assaults are not reported, so it's actually more like 660000 sexual assaults on women by male strangers in one year in England and Wales.

What bigger issue is there?

Why would we make things easier for men to assault us?

Dark corridor, 1 unisex room behind a closed door with further lockable contained toilet cubicles with floor to ceiling walls. Add in a bit of alcohol, what could possibly go wrong?

Helleofabore · 30/12/2025 16:29

Reading this thread back, I do wonder if those who wrote simply ‘I don’t mind’ type answers are only thinking of well lit, well populated mixed sex toilets in daylight hours without alcohol thrown into the mix.

And they are not thinking of the situations that many of us have mentioned up thread. Or they are not thinking of the needs that others have discussed having.

I guess that is why posters are mentioning ‘privilege’. Because if you are in a non-work situation, in a very well lit with lots of through put and cleaning staff, and people are not drunk or drugged, and the cubicles are well designed etc, and have basins inside and there feels like security around and they don’t have needs beyond the most common needs.

Sure, some people might not have any issues with those toilets. Others may.

But surely it doesn’t take much to understand that there are plenty of situations where it can easily be very concerning, even terrifying, for some female people. Or that there are also some backgrounds where even in those seemingly neutral situation that some people will be concerned to be in that situation.

MarieDeGournay · 30/12/2025 17:13

Having only mixed sex toilets is a thing of the past - the recent past, but the past.
Older buildings already have the standard, long-established configuration of segregated single sex toilets, plus an accessible toilet.
New buildings in England are obliged to have single sex toilets, provided there is enough room. Mixed sex toilets are an optional extra.
Approved Document T - Toilet accomodation

The equivalent documents for Scotland and Wales are less emphatic about provision of single sex accommodation as a requirement, but it is taken as a given, e.g. references to the required ratio of male toilets to female toilets - I wonder did they forget to go through the documents to take out these references!

SCOTLAND:
3.12 Sanitary facilities - Building standards technical handbooks: non-domestic buildings - 2005 to 2017 - gov.scot
3.12.2 Provision for staff
A building should be provided with sanitary facilities for staff in accordance with the following table:
Table 3.5. Number of sanitary facilities for staff
Sex Staff numbers WC WHB Urinals
Male 1 to 15 1 1 1
and so on

WALES:
32533 The Provision of Toilets in Wales: Local Toilets Strategies, English Version
2.10 .... despite women making up more than half of the UK population, and with a higher proportion of older people being women, there is more provision for men, primarily because of the smaller space that urinals take up. Historically, the ideal ratio of 1 male facility to 2 female facilities has not been delivered, which results in insufficient provision for women

The concept of single sex toilet provision seems to be the de facto standard, even where Doc T does not apply.

Taking out single sex toilets and replacing them solely with mixed sex toilets was an unnecessary, expensive decision that went against the established configuration which worked perfectly well for 90something% of the population, and has caused much trouble and ill-will.

Not a very clever decision, all things considered, but I suppose any company/venue that has done so will do and say anything rather than admit that ditching the existing single sex toilet arrangements was an unpopular waste of money.