Violins ready, independent article

[storminabuttercup]

Didn’t spot another thread on this, apologies if I missed it

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/trans-people-women-supreme-court-judgment-b2876522.html?fbclid=IwdGRleAO6Y9xleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEe56qoZcRdbDqi36-PZWkCNiPH16I-3YJWbeNJiuE5wKqklApVXsUq9rCZ108_aem_VJsqSP9QToVms8o846jdFg

as I scrolled I thought it was about non British nationals who are getting some awful hatred at the min, (which is frankly sickening) but it’s just people who have had biology explained to them, poor loves

If the UK govt is taken to the ECHR and this overrules the SC verdict, expect this to be an absolute wedge issue at the GE.
No way I vote for any party that is happy to let this lie, I'll be voting for either Reform or the Tories, whoever is best placed locally to win.
Leftist GC women voters, quite a few on here, will have some real thinking and soul searching to do.

Agree completely, I’m a lefty, a unionist, was years ago an elected member for labour. I’m politically homeless, I suspect there’s a lot of us

Not even a hint of balance in the article. Will there be a matching GC one?😒

Well, it's the Indy, what do you expect? They are the worst. Or the last, if you'd like to be a little more optimistic. Maybe a transwoman carrying a copy of the Indy could be admitted to the women's loos? Let The Nice Ones In.

Life’s tough when you have to stick to the rules everyone else does.

If I was part of a selfish group that saw 51% of the population having to jump thru hoops on their behalf, and a govt who refuse to roll.out the law as laid out by the highest court in the land, the last thing I'd do is bitch about my life 24/7.
Only one group deserve to bitch about how societal elites have waived their rights away, and we know who they are.

I was playing hyperbole bingo whilst reading that. It mentioned, safety, terror and of course suicidality. They sound like foot stamping teenagers.

It makes it sound like they are all being chased down the road by mobs with pitchforks everytime to set foot out the door. Are there any actual stats on attacks etc, especially stats of attacks on TiMs compared to women?

I’m not diminishing how it feels to be heckled and abused, it’s not ok and shouldn’t happen to anyone, ever. However I think it’s worth acknowledging that the perpetrators of this kind of abuse are generally men. Once again, the problem is male behaviour. Maybe the TiMs could focus their considerable campaigning clout on improving the behaviour of men, instead of expecting women to protect them.

But there is no evidence that any of this heckling and abuse is happening in large numbers (not that it should be happening at all), and even less evidence about who is supposidly doing it.

It doesn't help that seemingly most of the "abuse" is what should be discussion points around the facts of biology.

Exactly.

I don't see how McCloud can claim an Article 6 violation.

• He wasn't on trial.
• The "determination of his civil rights and obligations" doesn't apply because he lives in Ireland. The only way that the UK could interfere with his civil rights would be by stripping him of citizenship or making him put M on his passport, neither of which applies here.
• He's not a "person with an interest in proceedings by way of judicial review" because the outcome of the JR doesn't affect him because he lives in Ireland, so the SC was reasonable in refusing him permission to intervene.

Chris Northwood describes himself as a visible transwoman, which means he knows he is (to others) obviously a man pretending to be a woman. Which means he knows when he enters a women only space the women in there know he’s a man, and he doesn’t care.

Men like Chris Northwood deserve no sympathy.

McCloud is a deeply unserious person, he must know this case has no chance and is based on the weakest of arguments, but misleads and misdirects trans people to make them think there’s a chance of success.

'I’m a lefty, a unionist, I’m politically homeless, I suspect there’s a lot of us'

Yep. And it's bloody infuriating. Especially when we're told we're Trump/Farage loving Alt Right Fascists and Nazis.

I recall at the very height of the absolute shouting and screaming on IDs on the Pride spectrum, was a bisexual writer who at every available instance would announce they were bisexual.
"I'm bi, don't you know? Have I mentioned yet in this interview I'm bi? Tell me, when was the last time I told you I was bi?"
But then topped off the interview saying they hated the straight population for always mentioning it about her, lol.
And then when she wasn't addressed as bi, interviewers didn't ask her follow up Qs, the public said they didn't give a monkeys about ID politics and no-one mentioning it/objecting to her, she flew into flounces or performative rage, that not mentioning it or leaving unspoken this aspect of her, was demeaning of her essence, and spoke as to people de-humanising her.
The wallflowers in The Indy article are similarly afflicted. Because their gender IDs are not championed all the time, because they have to go thru the same doors the normie population has to, this is tantamount to bullying.
Worse for them, it's symptomatic of us not seeing human beings differently as we used to.
They want visible pedestals and rules to prioritise them.
The rest of us just want no advantages for people, no special treatment, all.of us to thrive on our own merits.

Give me an absolute f*ing break. I stopped reading after this sentence which appeared at the very beginning of the article.

"Members of the trans community said they felt the country had taken a 'huge step backwards” in what one woman described as a move that had “put the clock back to worse than several decades ago' ”.

Right before that, the author laments the Supreme Court ruling that defines "woman" as a biological reality, than has the nerve to quote a "woman" talking about how the clock has moved backwards.

Why bother even using the word "woman" here why not just say "person"?

How does the author even know they were speaking to a woman? Did they ensure the person who gave the quote clearly stated their pronouns? In the context of this quote, why would their sex or gender even be relevant? They could have used a whole host of words, person for one. Or cervix-haver. Or chosen to be more specific, like trans woman or nonbinary transmasc for that matter. But no the author has the nerve to tell us they're quoting a woman but simultaneously defending a position that obliterates the very meaning of the word.

It's bc these people, even as they defend their own ridiculous dogma, can't even truly escape the very biological, cultural, and social that has been baked into their brains and DNA for thousands of years. Deep down inside, they know darn well what a woman is. They don't need to define it for us anymore than they need to define it to themselves. BC we all know! Even when they're calling a "transwoman" a woman, deep down inside they still know.

None of this is about really thinking deeply about woman vs. man how women have relegated in almost every single culture or society in history, or womanhood or feminism or femininity or what is a woman. We all know - even they do. This is about control, pure and simple. This is about demanding the rest of us bow to the demands - however utterly absurd - BECAUSE it's absurd! Bc if they can force us to comply that means THEY are the ones in control. THEY are the superiors - morally, politically, and culturally. It's about power and control over those they deem to be the lesser - whether biologically or dogmatically. It's literally a tale as old as time.

Good points about this idea they’re being threatened etc, I’ve seen more threats towards GC women

think about the Darlington and Sandie Peggie cases these women acted carefully and properly and the cases went to court. That’s what they are afraid of not some woman shouting ‘get out of our loo’ because that’s when it becomes about fact

And yes @silverwrathi hate trump, I hate farage, i hate any form of racism I know that farage will not champion women’s rights in any other way so could never vote reform. They make out GC is a form
of discrimination but it’s really not. I’m rambling now but you get my point

No woman should have to worry about finding men in their single sex spaces.

My rights can not be given away by other women and they should not be stolen by men.

They make me laugh when they say that the UK is such a terrible country to live in for trans people. The UK, where the GRA has existed for decades, where trans people with a GRC are legally protected from discrimination, and where you can fully transition as an adult on the NHS. A terrible country indeed!

I also love the contradiction between "loads of trans people are fleeing the country or talking about it" and "the trans community is coming closer together". Which one is it? Oh, you mean, coming together online? Just as most of them who've supposedly experienced abuse have only experienced it online? Sounds like they need to get offline and go out there, and notice how nobody cares one bit about them, certainly not enough to abuse them.

I recently read a thread on Reddit Transgender UK. The discussion was about the experience of trans people (they were almost all transwomen) in the UK but outside London. The huge majority said that they had no issues at all, and were in fact welcomed and supported by local people and as they went about their lives everyone was tolerant / didn't care that they were trans. At worst they'd experienced a rare "micro aggression" - which would be someone doing a double take on seeing them (noticing that they were a transwoman). A small minority said that there'd been some abuse or hand signals.
On another thread an American said that they were thinking of coming to the UK but were worried about what they'd heard about how dangerous the UK was for trans people. Everyone reassured them that the UK was absolutely fine for trans people and they shouldn't hesitate to come here.

You may very well be right that Farage won't champion women's rights, but you also have no evidence he'll do anything to compromise them either.
Do you really think with the likes of Sarah Pochin and Laila Cunningham on board he's going to be anti-women in any way? And there'll be plenty more of what might be termed "Gen X Soccer Mum" type Reform candidates at the GE who'll be unambiguously GC.
At the very worst, Farage will just be bored by women's rights, but as the most prominent politician of the last couple of decades who absolutely has his finger on the pulse of British politics, he knows exactly which way the wind is blowing on trans ideology etc.
Then again, you have Labour, where Fabian blank slate "feminists" like Harriet Harman and Jacqi Cooper hold sway in the party and a prominent GC female MP.like Rosie Duffield feels they have to quit the Whip, and the rest, Davey Polanski Swinney Corbyn Sultana, TWAW to their very core.

I'm sure I read on here that hate crimes against trans people have fallen for two years in a row in the UK.

I lot of trans activists are always considering leaving the UK. They have done for years, and every year less and less goes in their favour yet they still live in the UK.

I don't think they have the first clue about what's involved in leaving the UK. You can't just up and leave. Do they have a sought after skill? Pots of money? Second language proficiency?

It's like a teenager threatening to run away unless they get what they want.

It's an empty threat, but I think it's self-aggrandising and the hope that everyone will do everything possible so that they don't leave.

The reality is that most aren't net-contributors to the UK. A lot are on benefits, and a lot make their money grifting.

Added to the fact that those threatening to leave are those who are always in the press, people of the UK would be better off it they left.