Woman banned from Council gyms...guess why? Protest 10th Jan at 1 pm see post on pg.7

[lcakethereforeIam]

Those who guessed 'because she objected to a man in the women's changing room', give yourselves a pat on the back

https://archive.ph/wLUBN

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/23/council-gym-trans-row/

"I'm sharing this because I thought intersex people were much rarer than they are. A useful comparison is for every 3 redheads you've met, you've likely met 1 intersex person. It's not always as simple as testing hormones and I don't think any of us would advocate for genital inspections."

This is misinformation.

The estimate of the true rate of people who might have ambiguous genitalia at birth is 0.018%. You are quoting misinformation. That figure that keeps getting repeated includes people with no ambiguity of their sex characteristics at all.

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/intersex-is-not-as-common-as-red

The higher figure is false and also fed by Fausto -Sterling of the joke (her admission) five sexes theory. It includes people with unambiguous sex categorisation.

Here are some more resources that are easy to access and have the reference material they use clearly listed. These are pretty clear.

https://theparadoxinstitute.org/watch

Wtf have 'intersex' people got to do with transpeople anyway? I'm sure there's a slight overlap, some people with a DSD may also claim to be trans but then again anyone can claim to be trans. The vast majority of men and women who adopt a trans identity are not 'intersex'.

"As you campaign, rightly, with a view to protect, please keep in mind that there are some people who will not be safe in the men's changing room. Saying that that's 'not my problem' isn't just unkind - we've had trans women in our spaces for over 15 years. Casting them aside without any consideration on the impact this may have says a lot about who we are."

This is also emotionally manipulative and comes from misinformation.

Which 'people' will not be safe in the men's changing room? what do you think will happen to them? Why is it female people's responsibility to shield and validate a group of male people who have the philosophical belief that they are female when they are materially not female?

"Saying that that's 'not my problem' isn't just unkind - we've had trans women in our spaces for over 15 years."

Did even ONE of those male people with transgender identities be 'kind' to any female person who might have needed the provision that male person was using to be female only?

Why do your kindness advocacy only go one way despite your claims otherwise? You are actually really here to plead with female people to be 'kind' to male people with the philosophical belief that they are not male, when they materially are.

Just because there was no set policy that a provisions should be female only because organisations didn't expect any male person to enter that provision, did not mean that female people consented to that behaviour. Claiming this privilege based on historic behaviour where consent was ignored is appalling.

if there is a male violence and abuse issue in male changing rooms, that really is for male people to start campaigning to change. There may be many feminists who will offer them help. But it really is not up to female people to fix that issue.

"Casting them aside without any consideration on the impact this may have says a lot about who we are."

Shaming female people into diverting our energies to campaign for male people's needs is something I could consider rather misogynistic, don't you think?

Truly, please watch those videos I linked about emotional manipulation. here is another one about consent not being transferrable. Something you should fully understand given what you said about your work.

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2006208789578391667?s=20

ie. Just because YOU consent, not one of us have to allow your consent to override our non-consent. YOU don't get to consent for any other female people. If ONE of us want that provision to remain single sex and that male people to not be there, that is enough.

I shall make sure to use certain words in separate posts in future.

Ah, I see

Just because there was no set policy that a provisions should be female only because organisations didn't expect any male person to enter that provision, did not mean that female people consented to that behaviour. Claiming this privilege based on historic behaviour where consent was ignored is appalling.

This cannot be said often enough. It absolutely nails it. I am so sick of statements like "trans women have been using women's spaces for 15 years with no complaints ".

Just because there were apparently no complaints does not mean we EVER consented to this!

Considering for how many of those 15 years women and girls have been conditioned through Stonewall etc, that to complain is to be seen as hateful, bigoted and will likely result in negative consequences. As Miranda has discovered.

A ridiculous situation has been created where women and girls have been conditioned to prioritise a group of male people's philosophical belief over any consideration for themselves. And then when they don't complain, this is weaponised against them.

It is more than appalling, but I don't want to be deleted.

Isn't there an absolutely fundamental principle when it comes to consent that anything less than an emphatic YES does not signify consent?

Silence/confusion/unawareness does not imply consent. As a number of footballers have discovered in court.

How can someone purporting to work in the anti sexual violence field not know this?

I genuinely think that some people don't think of it in terms of consent. And safeguarding principles seem to have be overwritten with Stonewall inclusion policies that are based in queer and gender identity theory and nothing to do with strong safeguarding.

Let's not forget that queer theorist Foucault was part of the intellectuals in France that convinced the French government in the 70s to lower the age of consent based on their theory that children were 'sexual beings'. This is the same Foucault who has been acclaimed for 'queer theory' which is foundational to Stonewall's suggestions.

Once you see this, you can never unsee it.

trans women are far more likely to be victims of sexual abuse than perpetrators.
Stats? Evidence? Why don't you look up the percentage of trans-identified male prisoners who are in prison for sexual offences, and then compare that percentage with the overall percentage of sexual offenders?

Whilst I understand the fear that abusive men could abuse the system and pretend to identify as a woman, trans women have largely been using 'female' changing rooms since 2010, with very few reported incidences.

How many reported incidences do you think should trigger safeguarding? What about unreported incidences, such as women too terrified to speak up, or who simply self-exclude?

How many reported incidences do you think should trigger safeguarding? What about unreported incidences, such as women too terrified to speak up, or who simply self-exclude?

Quite.

It's also important to recognise that women being too scared to speak up isn't the only reason why incidences go unreported, at least in the moment. Here are others:

• they simply don't have the time to stop what they're doing and speak up/make a complaint, as they're in a rush to go to work/pick up their kids/meet someone etc.
• they have their children with them and don't want to alarm their children or put their children in an uncomfortable situation by speaking up.
• they want to speak up, but have no faith in anything being done about it and are resigned.
• they think everyone else around is fine with it and don't want to rock the boat.

The sane thing will happen as it did before men started forcing their way in to female spaces won’t it? Either women were being challenged before all the gender ideology nonsense abd everyone coped, or it’s the fault of the men who now have made women super vigilant about who uses their spaces. Take it up with the men. HTH

Great lineup Saturday.

Miranda
Jan 7
Join us Sat 1pm for a stellar line-up:
⭐ Tracy Edwards, MBE, WSU
⭐ Heather Binning, Women's Rights Network
⭐ Maya Forstater
⭐ Su Wong
⭐ Dr Pam Spurr
⭐ Miranda Newsom, Whistleblower
& after... 🥂❤️🍔🍸

I so wish I could make it, will be with you in spirit 🚺

I can’t make it but hope it goes well

Whilst I understand the fear that abusive men could abuse the system and pretend to identify as a woman, trans women have largely been using 'female' changing rooms since 2010, with very few reported incidences.

The report published by Women's Rights Network after they FOI'd police forces found "80 sexual assaults, 16 rapes and 65 incidents of voyeurism took place in leisure centres in 2023 – many of them in mixed-gender changing areas." Is this enough reported incidences I wonder?

I checked the breakdown for my area (Devon and Cornwall) where 12 sexual assaults were reported to the police that year, all 12 perpetrators were men, all victims were women. The police didn't say how many offenders were TIM, maybe like me they know that men are just men.

The line up for Saturday looks great! It would be wonderful if some footage could be posted for those unable to be there?

When I fundamentally disagree with someone, I rarely have the energy to respond, let alone with kindness so firstly - thank you for those that have taken the time to do so.

There have been a lot of points made, and if I'm honest my immediate reaction was to go through line by line, mostly to argue and oppose. I then tried to park that urge and sincerely try to understand where you're coming from.

Here's the best I could come up with.

It took many years of endless conversations, several rounds of burnout, paying out of my own pocket, and frankly exhausting work before me and my team finally had the opportunity to listen and talk to young people about sex, consent and relationships. Our primary purpose was to prevent harm, and this was how I spent 7 years from 2017, as a professional.

Something that was so frustrating to me - not just irritating, but anger inducing - was when people (often parents) would use the precious little time we had together doing this work to raise the issues of false allegations against boys.

I could see they thought they were fighting for the underdog but from my perspective, they were contributing to the problem, wasting my time, they were ill informed and getting in the way of tackling the real issues. In a nutshell, they were putting others - women and girls especially - at risk.

I'm guessing that's how you feel about me.

So let's be honest.

The likelihood of you listening to me is like you listening to a pro-lifer of you were pro-choice or vice versa.

Despite how I feel about your position, that I disagree with you deeply, I understand you when you say 'consent isn't transferable,' I know that my preference for an inclusive space does not override yours, which is why I support you and your right to protest.

I would appeal to anyone to consider how their actions will impact others.

My message to you is whoever the group, whatever the society - if someone is on the outskirts, their risk of sexual violence drastically increases.

If you think that doesn't matter, because in your eyes these people are men, or have mental health issues, or shouldn't have been sharing your space in the first place - then I'm sorry that you think you're powerful enough to create change but don't feel responsible enough to do what you can to minimize harm.

I have asked you to be mindful of that. That's all.
Haven't asked you to stop advocating for your space or have to sacrifice your sense of safety.

Is that emotional manipulation?

I'm not convinced that having a feminine voice is all it will take to assure someone you belong in the women's changing room but then again, one person's opinion doesn't represent you all and you'll figure it out.

Good luck with your protest

Is that emotional manipulation?

Yes. It is. You specifically used emotionally manipulative tactics in your post.

If you were in a position of educating female children about consent, maybe you missed how they should recognise emotional manipulation.

You have also not presented one skerrick of evidence as to why the group of male people you have advocated for should be included in female single sex spaces. How about presenting some evidence that might convince us?

Or has everything that you have come to believe been emotionally reasoned and you have not ever really thought about that?

My message to you is whoever the group, whatever the society - if someone is on the outskirts, their risk of sexual violence drastically increases.

The first thing I noticed about this is the missing bit about being a victim of sexual violence.

Perhaps because there’s rather more evidence among those you’re concerned about of their being perpetrators of, rather than victims of, such violence. At least those of them in prisons.

"Something that was so frustrating to me - not just irritating, but anger inducing - was when people (often parents) would use the precious little time we had together doing this work to raise the issues of false allegations against boys."

This is not a relevant comparison.

No one is raising false allegations. There is plenty of evidence to back up our needs for female single sex spaces to remain single sex.

The fact that you don't even seem to be able to consider male people with transgender identities as being male people still, seems to be crux of the matter. If you cannot acknowledge that they are male people, that would be a position that is purely driven by misinformation and ideology. It would be also contradicting physical scientific fact established for centuries. You would have fully engaged an ideological belief over material reality.

"I could see they thought they were fighting for the underdog but from my perspective, they were contributing to the problem, wasting my time, they were ill informed and getting in the way of tackling the real issues. In a nutshell, they were putting others - women and girls especially - at risk."

I can this that this is you. Yes.

The fact that you have also decided not to engage with evidence does make you seem ill informed and putting female people at risk.

Did you even read the information presented?

Your misinformation about those people with DSDs should surely indicate that you really are not anywhere near as informed as you seem to believe. Did you not read that and think... hello??? Maybe I have not quite been reading as deeply as I thought?

No?

Ok then. Good to know that you don't seem to be able to engage at all, just tell female people that they should be centring male people instead of themselves and other female people. Thanks for reminding us why we are doing it.

“I can this that this is you. Yes”

should be

I can see that this is you. Yes

apologies

"Despite how I feel about your position, that I disagree with you deeply, I understand you when you say 'consent isn't transferable,' I know that my preference for an inclusive space does not override yours, which is why I support you and your right to protest."

"Inclusive" that word is really starting to annoy me even though I know it had good origins. It now seems to mean "it's unkind to have boundaries ".

"If you think that doesn't matter, because in your eyes these people are men, or have mental health issues, or shouldn't have been sharing your space in the first place - then I'm sorry that you think you're powerful enough to create change but don't feel responsible enough to do what you can to minimize harm."

They're not men in my eyes. They just are. It's not a value judgement. I accept that they might not like the fact they're men and they might be trying to present as otherwise. But they still are.

If you think that doesn't matter, because in your eyes these people are men, or have mental health issues, or shouldn't have been sharing your space in the first place - then I'm sorry that you think you're powerful enough to create change but don't feel responsible enough to do what you can to minimize harm.

It sounds like you think some men are harming some other men, so let’s put some of the men in with women and harm the women, instead of dealing with the problem between men.

The more responsible thing to do would be to stop men harming men.