Woman banned from Council gyms...guess why? Protest 10th Jan at 1 pm see post on pg.7

[lcakethereforeIam]

Those who guessed 'because she objected to a man in the women's changing room', give yourselves a pat on the back

https://archive.ph/wLUBN

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/23/council-gym-trans-row/

Anyone else notice the lack of engagement also with the fact that for legitimate discrimination purposes a group of male people cannot be treated as if they are not male people as the law recognises that they have not changed sex. In fact, is there even any clinician that states with the current bank of knowledge that these male people have in material real terms 'changed sex'?

When we talk about ideological belief and philosophical belief is the only thing that supports describing any male person as being a 'woman' or a 'girl', we are referring to the fact that evidenced and established science that has in no way been disproven. The ONLY thing that supports gender identities being prioritised above sex category is ideological thinking.

Which means discussing discrimination law in regards to legitimate discrimination based on protected sex characteristics very inconvenient and apparently, ignorable.

I feel for any child who has been taught to ignore boundaries such as the sex class of a person by an adult who fucking should know better. To me, this is an act of grooming. It may be indirect or direct.

Either way, telling any child that a male person is really a female person is obliterating their boundaries and instructing them to not trust their eyes and that their brains are telling them that the person is male. And if you have disrupted this aspect of their cognitions, you have completely disrupted their ability to accurately make a decision about their own safety and their own needs.

So am I right I thinking you believe women have an obligation to put the feelings of the men wanting to access female spaces before the feelings of women who may need and want a single sex space? Why? Why should the obligation not be on these men to minimise harm and distress to those who need single sex spaces?

Imagine being sexually assaulted and going to someone like this for help. Finding and reacting negatively to a TiM in the shelter you've been forced into, possibly frightened and beaten. She stands over you and piously says

in your eyes these people are men, or have mental health issues, or shouldn't have been sharing your space in the first place - then I'm sorry that you think you're powerful enough to create change but don't feel responsible enough to do what you can to minimize harm.

Or in other words 'Reframe your trauma, bigot!'.

@Pickledcontext Whilst I understand the fear that abusive men could abuse the system and pretend to identify as a woman, trans women have largely been using 'female' changing rooms since 2010, with very few reported incidences.

Turns out there have been very many reported instances. Free Speech Union have fought about 1600 cases in the last 5 years for women complaining about trans-identified males in 'bathrooms' and changing rooms.

That is over 6 women a week on average and, of course, this will be just the tip of the iceberg of women that have felt distress or trauma.

It is not women's responsibility to 'minimise harm' for men at our own expense. I am honestly shocked that you think we should.

I could see they thought they were fighting for the underdog but from my perspective, they were contributing to the problem, wasting my time, they were ill informed and getting in the way of tackling the real issues. In a nutshell, they were putting others - women and girls especially - at risk.
I'm guessing that's how you feel about me.

Yes, that is how I feel about you. I'm surprised that you can write that, but not recognise that this is exactly what you're doing.

You think the trans identified males you are fighting for are the 'underdog', but to me, you seem ill informed, as you fail to recognise that these people are still men, with all the physical advantages of the male sex. Putting these physically larger and stronger males into what should be female-only spaces does indeed put women and girls at risk. Especially when you consider that the vast majority of these men are heterosexual with intact male genitalia. They are really no different from what we used to call transvestites or crossdressers.

My message to you is whoever the group, whatever the society - if someone is on the outskirts, their risk of sexual violence drastically increases.

What does this mean? Do you believe that crossdressers are more likely than women and girls to be victims of sexual violence? Even if true, this is no reason to allow them access to women only spaces. Male on male violence is not a problem for women to solve.

If you think that doesn't matter, because in your eyes these people are men, or have mental health issues, or shouldn't have been sharing your space in the first place - then I'm sorry that you think you're powerful enough to create change but don't feel responsible enough to do what you can to minimize harm.

Responsible enough? What on earth do you mean? The best way to minimise harm to women and girls is to keep all men out of female spaces. Are you really suggesting that women should be human shields for vulnerable men as the only way to stop other men from harming them?

You seem to have forgotten that women are human, not a subhuman species which only exists to protect and assist men.

“Trans women” are men, there is no material difference between them and other men and no evidence to suggest their offending pattern is different to other men.

I think the premise that they're underdogs is wrong for starters and therefore everything that follows from that. Or perhaps better to say that claiming to be trans makes them underdogs is wrong. If they're homeless, how are they more underdog than any other homeless man. Ditto drug addicted. Ditto any other possible disadvantage that any other man might suffer.

There's a thread about a trans identifying man in Norfolk. Currently charged with making threats to burn down a law firm unless they paid him £100k. He's got a long record of interactions with law enforcement including a stint in prison. He's painfully autistic. I genuinely feel sorry for him. I'm grateful I live nowhere near him. He's about 6ft, massive, bearded and without a doubt a vulnerable underdog. Removing his claim to be trans wouldn't change his vulnerable status one iota, except @Pickledcontext would roll out the welcome mat in one instance and pack him off to someone else in the other. I'm obviously very stupid because I can't see the difference between the two versions of him.

Please don’t park it. Feel free to “argue and oppose” to convince us why we should have men in women’s spaces. I imagine you don’t have much of an argument beyond “but those men want to” but surprise me.

Pickledcontext appears to be claiming that men who believe they are women are vulnerable in men’s spaces because of male violence. Can we extrapolate from this that men who present themselves in ways stereotypically associated with women are in even greater danger in men’s spaces? Therefore the compassionate thing to do is to allow them entry into women’s spaces.

Anti-Semitism is on the rise. Men who believe they are Jewish are vulnerable in men’s spaces because of male violence. Can we extrapolate from this that men who present themselves in ways stereotypically associated with Jewish people are in even greater danger in men’s spaces? Therefore the compassionate thing to do is to allow them entry into women’s spaces.

Doesn’t make any sense, does it?

Transgenderism is a belief system, just like religion mostly is. (Yes, I know Judaism is an ethno-religion.) Being a member of a religion different to the majority around you is a risk factor for abuse. By the solution is not to put men who have a minority belief in with women. It is to require the majority men to behave with some degree of humanity and compassion.

I guess you could almost admire the nerve of Pickledcontext. By their own admission they’re just having to drag themselves onto the thread. Not that they really want to, but because we uppity women just won’t centre the needs of the opposite sex.

How dare we be well read and well informed, and have a lifetime of experience living in this world as females. No, the new kids on the block have arrived, and we must be scolded for not flinging open the doors to them. Doors we fought for years to keep shut, to exclude them.

Of course they’re not the new kids at all, it’s a tale as old as time. Men telling women how it is, and trying to make their lives a misery if they push back.

Given the day to day low level misogyny most women experience, and the percentage of women who’ve experienced male violence/aggression, being asked to be kind to a man because he wants to pretend to be a woman and enter our spaces is frankly unbelievable.

If a man thinks he’s a woman and another person goes along with his belief, that’s up to them. What isn’t up to them is to enter female single sex spaces which they know they are excluded from by virtue of their sex.

Kindness has nothing to do with it. I’m kind if somebody falls over next to me, or needs some help reaching a shelf in the supermarket, or perhaps their car won’t start. A man who wants to share my changing room? No.

Indeed. Great post, but pp has already written us off as pro lifers in her mind so it’s wasted on her. I worry about all these women working in the women’s sector who don’t understand the importance of healthy boundaries to consent tbh. I think she should do some reflecting herself, personally.

And if people think wheedling emotional blackmail calculated to manipulate my female socialisation is likely to sway me into pandering to these men, they couldn’t be more wrong. The exact opposite.

Just popped on to wish those protesting tomorrow an excellent day. 💪
Sorry that I cannot make it.

Brilliant group of women! Good luck tomorrow ❤️

Also @Pickledcontext I hope you read the links posted

Agreed.

This is how I’ve felt from the beginning of this mess. Knowingly trying to hook into that part of our socialisation that makes women and girls more vulnerable.It’s particularly calculating and manipulative.

The fact that this has been a central plank of the trans argument exemplifies exactly what they’re about. It’s a belief system that centres men which has no basis in reality. The #NoDebate worked for a while, but when that collapsed they needed another silencing tool. Welcome to the stage BeKind.

What @Pickledcontext doesn't seem to have allowed for is that one and the same man can be the prey of men and a predator on women. Vulnerable and abusive are not mutually exclusive.
"Not safe in the Gents'" is no guarantee of "suitable for the Ladies".

This, exactly.

The offending rates for transwomen in the justice system are far higher than men, let alone women.

Comparisons of official MOJ statistics from March / April 2019 (most recent
official count of transgender prisoners):
76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen = 58.9%
125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3%
13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison = 16.8%

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

Indeed.

These stats never fail to evaporate the ' oh so vulnerable and most oppressed' trope.

Good one for the lurkers and the newly no longer be-kinders to look at.

TY!

Any news on how the protest went/is going?

oldtiredcyclist · Today 12:54

I dont think that can be repeated often enough:

Comparisons of official MOJ statistics from March / April 2019 (most recent
official count of transgender prisoners):

76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen = 58.9%

125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3%

13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison = 16.8%

It went very well! We’ve been in the pub for a while, and I met someone (very lovely!) from this thread 👀👋. I’ll leave it to them to say who it is if they wish!