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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman banned from Council gyms...guess why? Protest 10th Jan at 1 pm see post on pg.7

503 replies

lcakethereforeIam · 24/12/2025 11:09

Those who guessed 'because she objected to a man in the women's changing room', give yourselves a pat on the back

https://archive.ph/wLUBN

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/23/council-gym-trans-row/

Access Restricted

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/23/council-gym-trans-row

OP posts:
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10
Helleofabore · 02/01/2026 20:24

ReaderInBath · 02/01/2026 19:43

'They' and 'them' are indeed confusing. Although there is polite precedent for using it to refer to a single person long before this trans-explosion.

Never heard 'people' used to refer to a singular trans or NB person. Unlike 'they' or 'them' with it's it polite precdent, 'people' has a very clear meaning of more than one person.

So I'm surprised at the confusion, particularly as @Kimura had been using 'the person' to mean the man before then. But fair enough. It was provocative though of @Cailin66 to categorically state that was how Kimura meant it though insead of asking Kimura. It's a combatitive stance that isn't conducive for open communication. And when you then double down and produce false evidence and don't say whoops sorry, it just makes you look like a tit. Which again isn't great for our GC side.

This was the post.

It wasn't up to her to police the situation in person and drag people into a heated argument in public.

I initially read it as a depersonalised reference to the man, until that poster then later clarified. To my mind it still referred do the man and not to the staff but in a depersonalised detached way.

The first post on the thread, I believe, referred to him as ‘the person’. So to me, this is depersonalised language for someone where the sex class of the person is known. It was long before I realised that male language (man, he/him) was being avoided. In fact, I hadn’t twigged why I was getting confused by the poster’s posts until Cailin pointed it out.

It was like this post from pages ago:

I assume they used some choice language back to Miranda? I suppose they could get them for that but I doubt they'd be able to justify a full year for that alone.

To my mind, this can be interpreted as the same depersonalised language but referencing him as ‘them’. ( the ‘they’ and ‘they’d’ is quite confusing.)

I am just explaining that because I had been doing this type of interpreting since the first post, the pattern of depersonalisation just continued to that post too. It was automatic in my mind, so the reference to ‘people’ in that context doesn’t necessarily mean that the poster intended it to be specifically for multiple people.

I was obviously wrong and it was clarified. But that is how it got twisted in my mind.

FallenSloppyDead2 · 02/01/2026 20:30

ReaderInBath · 02/01/2026 19:23

The back and forth wouldn't have continued much further if @Cailin66 , on checking the source, hadn't put a wrong quote as the source. That was a cock up.

The back and forth wouldn't have started if Kimura hadn't been so keen to avoid upsetting a boundary-crossing male who will probably never read this thread anyway

WhistPie · 02/01/2026 20:40

The back & forth wouldn't have carried on if people hadn't been so keen on totally derailing the entire thread away from its purpose and the subsequent advertising of the protest, which has now been well & truly hidden.

FallenSloppyDead2 · 02/01/2026 20:57

WhistPie · 02/01/2026 20:40

The back & forth wouldn't have carried on if people hadn't been so keen on totally derailing the entire thread away from its purpose and the subsequent advertising of the protest, which has now been well & truly hidden.

The details of the protest are in the title of the thread, so I wouldn't say well and truly hidden tbh😘

NeverOneBiscuit · 02/01/2026 21:08

Derailing is tedious, but can be very useful to those just coming across this issue, or those who’ve been told MN is a nest of vipers.

Watching the gymnastics & machinations can be very instructive.

WhistPie · 02/01/2026 22:15

NeverOneBiscuit · 02/01/2026 21:08

Derailing is tedious, but can be very useful to those just coming across this issue, or those who’ve been told MN is a nest of vipers.

Watching the gymnastics & machinations can be very instructive.

And you're so arrogant that you think a new person could be arsed to wade through so much piffle? On your bike

JanesLittleGirl · 02/01/2026 22:25

Jesus Christ on a fucking cross. Two thirds of this thread would not have been posted if everyone had used sex based pronouns. The bottom line is that the TiM should never have been allowed access to the female changing area and @MirandainSouthwark was completely within her rights to object to his presence.

NeverOneBiscuit · 02/01/2026 22:32

@WhistPie

Not at all, what an extraordinary take. Nobody has to read it word for word, nobody has to read anything. Just a skim or speed read is enough to get the gist.

I’ll keep my bike in the garage for now. But thanks 😘

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/01/2026 22:37

OldCrone · 02/01/2026 19:55

Thanks for the reply@Kimura.

So in summary:

Transwomen are men.
There's no way to distinguish a man who genuinely thinks he's a woman from one who's just pretending.
'Trans' is undefined and undefinable.

Therefore there's no reason to use anything other than male pronouns for a man who claims to be a "transwoman".

Yes, my takeaway too.

ReaderInBath · 02/01/2026 23:25

@Helleofabore totally fair

I'm not interested in derailing from the main point. Just pointing out that @Cailin66 was modelling an entrenched, 'not going to admit I made a mistake at all, me right you wrong' mentality which is not totally uncommon on the Feminism board generally despite criticising the other side for the same.

Doesn't take much to say thanks for clarifying to @Kimura instead of just going into her again. Or ah you're right, my mistake to @FirmaTerra when she pointed out that the comment wasn't in reply to what Callin said. That is all.

I will try and come to the protest to support Miranda as I'm supposed to be down in London that weekend, but I'll be at the mercy of my family so can't guarantee. If not, I'll be there in spirit. Wine

ProudWomanXX · 03/01/2026 00:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MirandainSouthwark · 03/01/2026 09:12

ReaderInBath · 02/01/2026 23:25

@Helleofabore totally fair

I'm not interested in derailing from the main point. Just pointing out that @Cailin66 was modelling an entrenched, 'not going to admit I made a mistake at all, me right you wrong' mentality which is not totally uncommon on the Feminism board generally despite criticising the other side for the same.

Doesn't take much to say thanks for clarifying to @Kimura instead of just going into her again. Or ah you're right, my mistake to @FirmaTerra when she pointed out that the comment wasn't in reply to what Callin said. That is all.

I will try and come to the protest to support Miranda as I'm supposed to be down in London that weekend, but I'll be at the mercy of my family so can't guarantee. If not, I'll be there in spirit. Wine

Thanks so much for even considering coming! Hope I see you there, otherwise, enjoy your time in London!

FirmaTerra · 03/01/2026 10:00

Cailin was more bothered about her ego and not showing any 'weakness' by admitting she was wrong in any way, even though she was replying to someone who was clearly on the same side, that is @MirandainSouthwark 's friend, or alleged friend anyway lol as I haven't seen Miranda confirm it.

”Alleged friend”. Lovely! Thanks @ReaderInBath

MirandainSouthwark · 03/01/2026 10:34

FirmaTerra · 03/01/2026 10:00

Cailin was more bothered about her ego and not showing any 'weakness' by admitting she was wrong in any way, even though she was replying to someone who was clearly on the same side, that is @MirandainSouthwark 's friend, or alleged friend anyway lol as I haven't seen Miranda confirm it.

”Alleged friend”. Lovely! Thanks @ReaderInBath

I hereby confirm that FirmaTerra is a friend IRL. In fact, I saw this user yesterday. Timestamps/dates/photos available (for a small handling fee of £400).

MirandainSouthwark · 03/01/2026 10:36

NeverOneBiscuit · 02/01/2026 19:29

This.

Ah, Sam Smith. I remember he said that on the days he most struggled with his weight, those were the days he felt like a woman 🙄

And a ‘fisherthem’, a job he imagined doing. Good luck in that pvc inflatable suit & heels!

I suppose it’s a “turn lemons into lemonade” take on moobs?

Icecreamhelps · 03/01/2026 10:42

My DS got a taxi home left the presents I bought him but took 2 bottles of wine. The presents are still here in going to return them and get a refund.

Helleofabore · 03/01/2026 11:49

Thinking back on this thread.

It really is something when you see the impact of language on the needs of women and girls. Of female people.

On one hand we now have male people demanding that language for female people be used for them to allow them access to female single sex spaces. Where they have demanded that established meanings of words be changed to allow them to access those words that should be unique to female people because we are distinct from male people. How fucking offensive is that to women and girls!

And on the other hand we also have supportive people who will pretzel their language to make it confusing to others so they supposedly don’t risk offending anyone, when it becomes clear that ‘anyone’ doesn’t include the female people who have lost their unique words and seemingly have lost the ability for accurate and clear discussion.

I remember the huge sigh of relief when I realised that MN was not going to delete my posts or ban me for using male pronouns and language for male people. I even remember people reporting me for using the term ‘male people’ to describe male people although MN did not delete my posts, that is how bad it got at one point.

The ability to use common language again was a release of pressure. The constant pretzeling to stay in guidelines required real effort. The example of pretzeling of language in this thread is a good reminder to me that avoidance of using what one group of people consider offensive really does limit the clarity of message.

All because a group of people demand that society treat their philosophical belief that doesn’t reflect material reality as if it is everyone’s material reality. Highlighting yet again Miranda, just how brave you are to speak up publicly.

Helleofabore · 03/01/2026 12:00

The example of pretzeling of language in this thread is a good reminder to me that avoidance of using what one group of people consider offensive really does limit the clarity of message.

Of course, by that I mean language that is not derogatory and is fact based commonly accepted language.

NowNoMoreBiscuits · 03/01/2026 12:29

Helleofabore · 03/01/2026 11:49

Thinking back on this thread.

It really is something when you see the impact of language on the needs of women and girls. Of female people.

On one hand we now have male people demanding that language for female people be used for them to allow them access to female single sex spaces. Where they have demanded that established meanings of words be changed to allow them to access those words that should be unique to female people because we are distinct from male people. How fucking offensive is that to women and girls!

And on the other hand we also have supportive people who will pretzel their language to make it confusing to others so they supposedly don’t risk offending anyone, when it becomes clear that ‘anyone’ doesn’t include the female people who have lost their unique words and seemingly have lost the ability for accurate and clear discussion.

I remember the huge sigh of relief when I realised that MN was not going to delete my posts or ban me for using male pronouns and language for male people. I even remember people reporting me for using the term ‘male people’ to describe male people although MN did not delete my posts, that is how bad it got at one point.

The ability to use common language again was a release of pressure. The constant pretzeling to stay in guidelines required real effort. The example of pretzeling of language in this thread is a good reminder to me that avoidance of using what one group of people consider offensive really does limit the clarity of message.

All because a group of people demand that society treat their philosophical belief that doesn’t reflect material reality as if it is everyone’s material reality. Highlighting yet again Miranda, just how brave you are to speak up publicly.

👏👏👏👏

This. With bells & balls on.

When Jordan Peterson spoke out about Canada’s proposed C16 bill, to legally mandate certain words - pronouns - he said ‘I will not cede the linguistic territory.’ That always stuck in my mind. This was in 2016.

PassTheHanky · 03/01/2026 12:56

FallenSloppyDead2 · 02/01/2026 18:04

I have written an email to Southwark Council to complain. Maybe anyone who cannot make the demo could think about doing something similar.

I've just emailed Southwark Council's Complaints department. If I get a response within the promised 10 days I'll post it!

Citrusbergamia · 03/01/2026 13:45

PassTheHanky · 03/01/2026 12:56

I've just emailed Southwark Council's Complaints department. If I get a response within the promised 10 days I'll post it!

not a chance of me getting to London to help with the protest but I'll be thinking of you all and will definitely write a complaint if you think it will help.

I am so sick of this.

fromorbit · 03/01/2026 16:16

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

Cailin66 · 04/01/2026 08:17

More on Miranda here

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/2149815/finally-turning-point-against-this
^^
Miranda Newsom was criticised by Southwark council for misgendering the man by using “him” rather than “she” and had her gym membership suspended for a year. Her objection was deemed “not appropriate”.

Finally the turning point against this regime of wokeness has started

With non-crime hate incidents on the chopping block, the UK takes a bold step towards prioritising real crime and safeguarding free speech for all.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/2149815/finally-turning-point-against-this

KnottyAuty · 04/01/2026 09:45

@MirandainSouthwark is there scope for you asking the EHRC for help on this? If it’s Southwark Council who are the operators then the Regulator might fine them. They are looking for targets I think - the NHS Is possibly too big/unweildly but a local council might fit the bill nicely….

ETA After the EHRC threatened NHS Fife with a fine they said toilets had returned to single sex (although no published policy to prove it yet) so they carry weight even if they are struggling to get parliamentary support

MirandainSouthwark · 04/01/2026 11:00

Helleofabore · 03/01/2026 11:49

Thinking back on this thread.

It really is something when you see the impact of language on the needs of women and girls. Of female people.

On one hand we now have male people demanding that language for female people be used for them to allow them access to female single sex spaces. Where they have demanded that established meanings of words be changed to allow them to access those words that should be unique to female people because we are distinct from male people. How fucking offensive is that to women and girls!

And on the other hand we also have supportive people who will pretzel their language to make it confusing to others so they supposedly don’t risk offending anyone, when it becomes clear that ‘anyone’ doesn’t include the female people who have lost their unique words and seemingly have lost the ability for accurate and clear discussion.

I remember the huge sigh of relief when I realised that MN was not going to delete my posts or ban me for using male pronouns and language for male people. I even remember people reporting me for using the term ‘male people’ to describe male people although MN did not delete my posts, that is how bad it got at one point.

The ability to use common language again was a release of pressure. The constant pretzeling to stay in guidelines required real effort. The example of pretzeling of language in this thread is a good reminder to me that avoidance of using what one group of people consider offensive really does limit the clarity of message.

All because a group of people demand that society treat their philosophical belief that doesn’t reflect material reality as if it is everyone’s material reality. Highlighting yet again Miranda, just how brave you are to speak up publicly.

This. Thanks so much and for reminding us how strict the rules were just a short time ago. I got banned temporarily and told to delete posts or get permabanned for basic language. If I use “she/her” for a man, nothing makes sense. It is outrageous thought-control and speech control.
I can’t believe this is happening, as I am typically non-confrontational and a scaredy-pants. If you only knew the sweat and discussions with DH about what name I would use. The day before, I was considering my mother’s maiden name as worried about career damage. So glad I just stepped up. Honestly, 3 years ago, I wouldn’t have, but JK Rowling and other brave women paved the path and it’s only fair to them to be a little bit brave at this relatively safe juncture. Still double-checking door knockers before opening front door though.