Teen threw out Harry Potter books. Help me form points for discussion please

[ItsPeggyOlson]

Please help me with points about how JKR is not a monster to put to my young teen who grew up with her books but has had head turned by friends/school. I’m also looking for a primer in basic GC points. I think there must be an existing thread but I can’t find it so would be happy if someone could link it.

In past talks I thought I had made convincing enough points about people not being able to change sex but haven’t discussed the topic in a good while and clearly others have now radicalised my child and it’s very upsetting. My muddled peri brain is making it hard to form coherent points but I would like to have a calm conversation after I initially flew off the handle when I first realised what had happened with the books. Thanks for any guidance.

I'd go for the 'You do not destroy books. You don't have to read them, you don't have to like them anymore, you don't have to agree with them or the writer, but you do not destroy books' approach.

Books are a tangible history of ideas and thoughts. Erasing those thoughts, no matter what they were, means deleting ideas about freedom, self determination, heroism, standing up for what is right - and of understanding the beliefs and motivations of people that do wrong and learning how to stop terrible things happening.

It's not about disliking one author, it's about understanding people. To erase HP books is to erase how the concept of racial purity being wrong was introduced to children, how people can be tricked by the media or with promises of wealth/power/superiority, how heroes aren't just big and strong and loved by all, how sacrifice can redeem somebody, how help can be found in the darkest times and how even being the winner carries a heavy cost.

'To destroy those books means it's also OK to destroy books of people you do agree with, to erase evidence of girls, of children, of people from different countries and places having intelligence, strength or deserving to exist. Which isn't right. You do not have to read them anymore. But you do not ever, ever destroy books'.

Everyone over 25 is old to a teenager.

It sounds like she already knows your opinions so we're now in rejecting those opinions territory. You are not going to 'win' this argument because it's more about her aligning herself with her friendship group. I'd fish the Harry Potters out of the bin and give them to a charity shop where they can entertain a new generation. I'd also just drop the whole subject unless she raises it.

Geezo, I hope none of them were the rare editions worth thousands of pounds!

Books your child doesnt want can go to charity.

Kids and teens have a lot of batshit ideas, OP. For the most part, they don't tend to last long.

I wouldnt focus especially on the JKR part, necessarily, but consider what is going on in terms of peers and radicalisation. 13 is a difficult age!

Children are differentiating themselves, testing boundaries. Sometimes they need support and coaching and sometimes listening and sometimes firm instruction. It just depends.

I think I wouldn't focus on JKR at all (whatever you say they'll probably dig their heels in and not listen anyway) I'd probably (age dependent) rather talk about how MVAWG has been declared a epidemic and talk about how to navigate life with respect to it. Talk about how the world hasn't been designed for W&G, talk about Afghanistan and how women's rights there have gone backwards. All these things can help your child understand why certain things are needed for W&G.

I would ignore it. Her books, she can do what she wants with them. You won’t change her mind- and you may destroy your relationship.

What about the right to hold offensive views? Teenagers are likely to think that being gender critical is offensive.

Well they're utterly wrong if they think that. The OP should question them on what they think is so offensive about basic biological facts and upholding women's sex based rights.

This. A great lesson in checking your facts and being able to back up your argument with evidence which helps with critical thinking, debating, ultimately their long-term education.

Although tbh, I'd be way less measured, be furious about the books and ask them if they really think they're so important that all 8 billion on the planet only have value if they agree with their views on any and every issue?

What makes you think that? All the teens I know are very clear that there are two sexes and its not possible to change sex.

The majority of people have 'gc' views.

Today it was reported that a woman has been suspended from a Council run gym for the tenacity of complaining that there was a man getting changed in the women’s changing room. Five minutes ago everyone would have agreed that this was not right, but today apparently this is an ‘offensive view’. Personally I find it offensive that this has been allowed to happen, but that’s just me.

It’s not just you. The whole thing is utter madness.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. Lots for me to go through here. Thanks for the considered responses and range of perspectives. I think I’ll start by listening first, thank you to all who pointed out that teenagers (like anyone really), want to be heard. And the arguments can wait for further down the line. Thanks to those who posted the link to JKR’s follow-up to her original letter (I wasn’t aware of this), and will also watch the video some of you linked. I appreciate the reminders to focus on critical thinking as a life skill, and not being led by strong personalities in the group. Also separating the artist from the work if that will help save happy childhood memories. Special thanks to the people who have spelled out specific points of argument, and to the posters who feel strongly that discussion should be had. I do want to preserve the relationship but feel it’s important to have discussions in the home that may go against perceived orthodoxy at school. I will heed the reminders to go gently though. Sorry I’m not techie enough to go back to find and name check specific posters while writing this reply. Thanks once again for taking the time to give virtual support. If only we had a real-life salon for chat and camaraderie.

Your child gets to not read whatever books they want. I'm failing to see the issue here, really.

They're childrens stories so it's not inappropriate to let go of them. I'd be more worried if they were reading them exclusively. I also understand they did it in a provocative manner but they are not in the first few billion teenagers to act like that and won't be the last either.

My DC are adults now. Through the years we have strongly disagreed on many subjects. As I did with my own parents. I'm happy to report, none of our relationships were 'destroyed' or even slightly damaged by it. They grew up to be adults who understand that I have my views that I'm happy to defend, and that I have the respect not to patronise them by going along with every opinion they share because I'm too scared to upset them.
This idea that any voicing of GC views to a child who doesn't share them is 'risky' is imo just part of the propaganda aimed at ensuring young people only ever hear one side. Unless the teen believes themselves trans, so has actual skin in the game, a disagreement with parents over trans issues is unlikely to be a game changer in their relationship.
So in your shoes OP, I'd speak my mind. It's not about trying to convince, that's probably too ambitious. It's about letting them know you have courage of your own convictions, just as they do, and that the view they've accepted is not the only one.

I’m just reposting this because it sounds like I’m advising not discussing it with her at all and that wasn’t quite what I meant.

I still don’t think there’s any point trying to trade debating points with her because she’s almost certainly arguing from a position of emotion rather than reason. I doubt she’d either listen or read JKR’s essay at this point. But I would make it clear to your teen that you disagree about JKR and that you’ll be happy to present the counter arguments and facts whenever she’s ready to hear them. And then I’d watch and I’d wait.

I’d stick with this line - no point in going further and arguing the toss.

Rip her a new what?

This, absolutely bored by this lot of unintelligent bandwagon jumpers. Tell her if she’s so anti women like JKR, she can say goodbye to being funded by you. Arrogant little sods.

Yep, my teen family members and the majority of their cohort think all the attention seeking “trans teens” are pathetic losers and ridiculous. They all feel quite sorry for them, so last season…

100%

Its just another 'no debate' scare tactic - disagreement will 'destroy' the relationship and teens risk suicide if they're not affirmed. More attempts to make the holy state of trans a sacred position nobody can question.

That said, there is a risk of children who have been groomed being encouraged to distance themselves from family.

So I suggest calm Socratic questions and lots of active listening, as well as connection in general, are best to maintain a healthy relationship.

Ahaparenting.com has great ideas for active listening, supporting and coaching teens.

I wouldn’t worry too much, it sounds a very normal teenage thing. At exactly the same age I suddenly decided all my ABBA cassettes were no longer cool and binned them (Adam and the Ants fans looked down at ABBA fans at my school). My mum was very cross at the waste of money and pointed out someone else might have liked them if I didn’t want them any more. Of course I bloody love ABBA again now i am menopausal don’t give a shit about being cool.

i get the concern about countering messages your daughter may be hearing at school, but I would go with the message that it’s perfectly fine for tastes to change but throwing away books is never a good thing. I don’t think you can ever overreact to the binning of a perfectly good book!

Loved reading about your Abba revival @ThreeWordHarpy. I know Aha Parenting, thanks for the reminder @ArabellaSaurus - this is definitely the time to revisit the site.