Why do you care so much about gender issues?

[GCScot]

Longtime lurker, first time poster.

I'm fully GC, mainly due to this board. So first of all, thank you for all the excellent thoughtful discussion!

DH and most of my family are also GC. But they don't care about it anywhere near as much as me. This got me wondering - why do some of us care so much about gender ideology?

My reasons are:

1. I'm a lifelong feminist. Gender ideology causes so many issues for women. But the attempted redefinition of the very word woman feels like an actual existential threat

1. I'm a lifelong lefty. Finding myself on 'the other side' to left-wing political parties, friends, and institutions I have trusted all my life (The Guardian, BBC, NHS, universities) has completely thrown me. Am I wrong? If I'm not wrong, how have they gone so spectacularly wrong?

1. I have a science background. The (wilful?) ignorance of the basic science of biological sex and the prioritisation of feelings over facts enrages me

1. I have personally had a double mastectomy and hormone therapy for breast cancer. These were extreme medical treatments to save my life and have long-term health repercussions - I am at high risk of heart disease and osteoporosis. The fact that physically healthy children and vulnerable young people are being encouraged to undergo these treatments makes me sad and angry

1. The 'No debate' aspect of this issue is totally against my values. I work for a fully captured institution (Scottish university) and being unable to freely speak about this issue means that it is frequently running through my mind

Do any of the above resonate with others? Do you have any additional reasons why you care so much about this issue?

Exactly, men knew precisely who women were when it came to withholding the vote/property ownership/employment rights. Now women have those rights and suddenly it's too difficult to define what a woman is

Strangely, women identifying as men under Scottish law aren't allowed to claim male right of primogeniture over aristocratic titles/land ownership. Almost like they know fine well who's a man and who's a woman in those circumstances 🤔

I was taught you cannot defend what you cannot define. If the definition of women is "adult human female - oh and some men with non quantifiable lady feelings" then it is impossible to define women as a sex class. At a stroke there is nothing that is fir women at all.

as for the institutional capture, I am a member of the public sector 'lanyard class' which in my personal experience is populated by ppl who go to lots of meetings with other ppl from the lanyard class and everyone is polite and most discussions are entirely theoretical discussions about the public and what the public think whilst never actually interacting with the public beyond an Amazon delivery driver or the person on the tills in the supermarket

Yes, the lobbying groups encouraging institutions to 'get ahead of the law'! Causing so much confusion as to what the law really says and almost managing to change the law by precedent. Thank god for this year's Supreme Court ruling (and to the brave women who brought it about)

So infuriating that so many women have suffered professionally and personally over this

I don't know whether I care but I'm sure as hell angry.

I'm angry because it does not make sense, it has never made sense, but so many people are spewing this ridiculous nonsense, despite the fact that it's a load of hogwash.

I'm angry because we've come full circle and men are again getting to decide what it is to be a women, what women must say, what women must think.

I'm angry because so many women who declare themselves to be feminists are the main force behind this stupidity.

I'm angry because we're forcing children to tell lies and punishing them when they don't

I'm angry because women who have worked so hard to achieve something are having it taken from them because some male cheat has declared himself a women.

I'm angry about every single thing this mentally deluded ideology stands for.

I started off caring when I saw how it was pushed at children and how they can so easily go down a path of social and medical intervention that can not be rolled back.

Yes, this sounds good. Biological appropriation?

So much good sense being expressed on this thread!

For me, it's the lies. Not just the fundamental one, that humans can change sex. Lies start off by corroding trust between people and spread to corrupt institutions.

Obviously anything founded on a lie has to be supported by more lies, eg calling men 'she', falsifying official documents such as passports and birth certificates, allowing men to claim prizes in women's sports etc etc.
And these then have to be supported by people pretending to believe them, like the NHS staff who swore, when a patient said another patient had raped her, that she was lying because there were no men on her ward (the rapist was a 'transwoman').
And if you play along pretending to believe the lies, you have to denounce those who won't play the game, and they have to be punished. So even if you want to stop lying, it gets harder and harder to dare.

To shore up the lie -
Organisations have to exclude members who commit 'wrongthink'
Employers have to sack guiltless workers.
Colleagues have to shun colleagues.
Trade unions have to abandon their female members.
Police have to interrogate those who express conflicting opinions.

As the lies spread to disrupt society -
Women's single-sex organisations and spaces have to allow men in.
Lesbians have to accept male sex partners or risk being excluded.
Laws against indecent exposure have to be quietly ignored so men can freely parade naked in front of women and children.
Children are taught that people can be 'born in the wrong body' and need drugs and surgery to put them right.
Governments pass laws to entrench the lie, eg self-ID
Etc

At every level, as the edifice grows, I suspect the pretenders feel more and more desperate, but no longer dare to challenge the lie.

It will all come tumbling down eventually, because nothing built on a lie is stable. But many young lives will have been ruined before then.

I agree. The more you think about it, the more you can't stop thinking about it. Especially if people are telling you to stop thinking about it

To me it feels like the thin wedge of a totalitarian state

Because my son is young and impressionable.

I agree with many of the points raised, but fundamentally it comes down to the fact I will NOT stand by and allow women and girls' hard-won rights to be given up to men. Again.

No fucking way. They're not better than us. They don't deserve more than us and they're not having it.

Not on my watch.

I agree with most of what PP have said, but the bottom line for me is the assault on democracy. As a society we have to be able to debate issues openly otherwise the electorate becomes (even more) cynical and the elites ever more powerful. If we lose democracy, we lose everything.

Absolutely. My question was because I am trying to understand my own psychology and curious about that of other people who feel the same way about this issue. But you're absolutely right that why other women DON'T care is perplexing

It's particularly strange that it's often women leading the pro-gender ideology charge. At my work it is women who are vehemently pushing pronoun badges/claiming men can have cervixes/calling for GC groups to be cancelled. The 3 work colleagues who have quietly expressed doubts about gender ideology to me in private conversation are all men

I’ve remembered two more

1. Because after no consultation with women, but after careful development with trans employees, my former employer (v large MNC) proudly launched its Trans inclusion policy opening up the ladies loos to anyone.
2. the much lauded menopause policy talks of cis women when it had to specify, and avoided women as much as possible. An absolute disgrace

Children.
The open grooming of children to accept that their bodies could be flawed but a sex change is the cure.
The deliberate targeting of children - especially vulnerable children, children in care of the state, children with autism, eating disorders, self harm and anxiety. All these organisations (many run by middle aged men) openly targeting schools, charities and any organisation that works with children.

This powerful lobby has entrenched itself in regulatory bodies to ensure that safeguarding and safe, ethical child healthcare is neutralised so that the ideology can be sold to children with the right wing bigots parents, carers and other responsible adults being forbidden from intervening to safeguard them.

We're looking at a form of domestic terrorism with the population being openly bullied, threatened, coerced and gaslit into abandoning children in favour of this adult ideology that should be nowhere near children.

Back in the 1970s, I was prepared to suspend my disbelief of leftie men who said they really, reeeaaaally supported women's rights, but they couldn't do anything to help right now because other issues were more urgent. I didn't believe all the other issues were more urgent, but I believed the men thought so.

Now, seeing how almost every trade union stamps on female members who try to defend their rights at work, I realise I was much too trusting. They don't just not give a damn. They really do despise us.

As Germaine Greer said back then, women have no idea how much men hate them. At the time, much as I loved Germaine, I thought she was being a bit unfair. Sorry, Germaine. you were right and I was wrong.

Yes, this.

I'm encouraged that, in general, the GC viewpoint is gaining much more traction amongst wider society, as the populace wakes up to the madness. But this is the point that hasn't yet properly seen the light of day amongst the general public, I don't think. And it really, really needs to.

The trouble is, I think it may be so shocking and worrying - so unbelievable - that people are thinking we must be exaggerating. We have to be, because surely that can't be right - nobody in the lanyard classes and higher would be deliberately pushing that kind of agenda.... would they?

Brilliant post.

I don't like how aggressive they are, the funny thing is, this behaviour is mostly done by men, so by forcing their ideology on us, they are just reinforcing the fact that they are men to me. You don't see that many transgender men raging about their right. Seems that they are just getting on with their life.... exactly like a woman.

There’s an LGB Alliance demo outside the Dept of Health on Victoria Street on Wednesday from 1pm, if anyone is inclined?

I’d go but DS has his final mock exam and I am his only means of transport. When I pack him off to uni in 9m I have decided to start putting myself out there…

I didn't realise what was happening until my niece came home and declared herself non-binary. She hadn't even had sex at that point. It appears that at her school the groups for autistic and ADHD children were spreading ideas with no critical or alternative viewpoints. Her parents tried to talk things through and talk to the school but this started a schism that is still unresolved.

Trans people also became more prominent in my family and friends families. Although i had met Trans people and cross dressers and drag queens through work and social life previously something felt different.

Notably these were now children and although parents and families were supportive the children (some now adults) were leading unhappy lives even in their new 'identities'. They were isolated, often not working other than a low status job or living independantly and were dependant on family or trans friends. They weren't making friends out of the trans subgroup or small groups that had similar interests. There was a lot of therapy going on.

My gay friends started talking about how different the Pride type events and most stopped going. They weren't happy with Trans and other groups being added.

I feel ashamed that I was so ignorant about what was happening. My usual sources let me down.

It's particularly strange that it's often women leading the pro-gender ideology charge. At my work it is women who are vehemently pushing pronoun badges/claiming men can have cervixes/calling for GC groups to be cancelled.

You said you work at a university, right? While I don't actually work at a uni, I have a lot of contact with that sector and my experience is the same. What is it about so many women in higher ed that makes them enthusiastic adherents of all this?

One of my gripes about GI is that nobody consulted women about admitting men into their spaces. But what if women had been asked? What if these women had been asked? We'd be in pretty much the same position as we're in now.

1. I'm a lifelong feminist. Gender ideology causes so many issues for women. But the attempted redefinition of the very word woman feels like an actual existential threat

That's it for me. I was a baby teen feminist in the late 1970s. Never did I dream that middle-aged fat pervy men would try to bully me about the very definition of what I am, and what women & girls are.

It's fundamental.

Nothing about us without us.

Yes, the aggression! Rape threats and death threats aren't typical female behaviour are they 🤔

@GCScot Yes. And you're right on all counts

Yes, I work in a Scottish university (professional services, not an academic)

I think it's women who feel strongest about this issue, for both sides. But the women who see themselves as trans allies are the ones emboldened to speak out in favour, whereas the GC women are often afraid to speak. I can't understand why intelligent women can be so vehemently pro an ideology which seems to me so obviously wrong... Maybe I should be asking them why they feel so strongly, rather than asking people who mainly agree with me 😁